"Cult of Mary"

Quote: FrGamble

Goodness are you talking about Jesus Christ who died for you

I'll let you handle the crushing guilt for
this, padre, he didn't die for me. That's
your problem.

Quote:

The non-believers sadly often have a hard time forgiving themselves and wallow in their mistakes, it is sad and so unnecessary.

Yes, we're a pathetic lot, lol. Don't worry about
us, we muddle along somehow without gods
help.

You use the word sad a lot. I mean a LOT. We both know it's way
to be condescending and while appearing to be empathetic.
I actually learned this over 40 years ago on the debate team in
college. Do they have those anymore? We were told never to use
words that demeaned our opponent or made them look small. A
word of advice, quit using the word, it makes you look small, not
me, because I know what you're doing. You watch, in the future,
you'll refrain from using it long after we don't know each other
anymore. I rarely use it, and then it's only to be blatantly sarcastic.

Looks like the Curia is in trouble with the
boss. He gave them a laundry list yesterday
of things they need to work on. I like the
one about gossip, and “existential schizophrenia”:
This refers to “a double life, a result of the
hypocrisy typical of mediocre people and
of advancing spiritual emptiness, which
degrees or academic titles cannot fill.’

Those ego driven religious types, what
an agenda they have..

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/world/wp/2014/12/22/pope-francis-warns-vatican-leaders-against-spiritual-alzheimers/

Quote: Evenbob

I'll let you handle the crushing guilt for
this, padre, he didn't die for me. That's
your problem.

For the hundredth time this truth of our faith is to free us from crushing guilt. Stop the madness! Please try to get it through your head that Jesus died fro us out of love, from the cross he says, "Father forgive them they know not what they do." He did die for me and you and the whole world, but don't feel guilt about it - that is exactly the opposite of why He did it!

Quote:

We both know it's way to be condescending and while appearing
to be empathetic...
I actually learned this over 40 years ago on the debate team in
college. Do they have those anymore? We were told never to use
words that demeaned our opponent or made them look small.

Whatever you may think I am being empathetic, but I also understand it can be a dig that you feel strongly so I will attempt to refrain. We both agree anyway that being evil or bad will lead to unhappiness, which is probably a better word. The other couple of things you might remember from debate is the advice to match your opponent's level of aggression while not degrading the debate into a shouting match or curse words. You are very offensive and aggressive in many of your comments resorting to unsubstantiated claims and poisonous sarcasm. I know I should turn the other cheek but sometimes I fall into it and write things that may be considered aggressive and stinging. I'm sorry about that, I will tone it down if you will.

The second thing I'd like to remind you of is staying on topic. It seems that you leave a lot of questions or ideas either unanswered or unresolved. Usually that would be considered conceding the point, but I think I know you too well to think that is what you are doing. For example I'm still waiting for how my existence is proof of an eternal universe. I'm also waiting for confirmation that we both agree that mistakes are made by all people who feel remorse for them and that the reason you do not call these sins is just because of the religious connotation that they offend God too. I also would love for you to explain more why your idea that the bad end up living miserable lives is not a rule and how this concept of earthly punishment is consistent with you maintaing their really is no good or bad, it is all relative. There is probably more but I've got a Christmas homily to write.

Quote: Evenbob

Looks like the Curia is in trouble with the
boss. He gave them a laundry list yesterday
of things they need to work on. I like the
one about gossip, and “existential schizophrenia”:
This refers to “a double life, a result of the
hypocrisy typical of mediocre people and
of advancing spiritual emptiness, which
degrees or academic titles cannot fill.’

Yeah the Pope is kicking butt and taking names - I love this guy!

Quote: FrGamble

For the hundredth time this truth of our faith is to free us from crushing guilt.

Then when is the guilt going away? I constantly
hear Christians guilt people with the cross story.
"Don't you know he died for you? How does that
make you feel?" My wife never saw Passion of
the Christ because of the guilt she had drilled
into her all her life about the cross. And she's
not Catholic. She didn't think she could handle
such a vivid depiction as the movie.

Just use the same homily you used 3 years ago,
nobody will know. Dig it out and change a few
things, you'll be good as gold.

Quote: FrGamble

For example I'm still waiting for how my existence is proof of an eternal universe. .

You just know it instinctively. Look at
the American Indians. They had no
personal god, it was a foreign concept
to them. They felt an instinctual connection
to all living things, that they were all tied
together. The thing that animates us, that
we call life, many of them called that the
Great Spirit. We're part of it and it's part
of us. We are it and it is us. You know this,
you feel it. The Indians weren't afraid of
death, it's a part of life. Nobody is afraid
because they don't know where they
were before they were born. That's because
they do know, everybody instinctively knows
that our souls, who we really are, has been
here forever and always will be here. It's
religion that makes a game out of it, that
screws with peoples minds for their own gain.

It doesn't matter, we're only actors on a stage,
as Shakespeare said. The best zen masters
lead two lives, one here with us, and the other
in the place without time. If you ask them which
is more important, they'll say neither one is
important. Nor is it unimportant. Makes no
sense, but it actually makes perfect sense. No
one thing is more important than any other thing.
How could it be.

In this case I'm proof that there isn't an eternal universe because nothing of what you say is instinctual or appealing to me. I do love nature, but I recognize that I am very different than it. In fact I spend most of my time sheltered from the heat of summer or the cold of winter, both of which would kill me. I like pets, but only ones that behave, are trainable, and preferably can't kill me. I will eat meat on occasion and my extended family are farmers from Indiana, where they manipulate nature to provide crops as far as the eye can see. I also have mad respect for Native American spirituality and I believe strongly we need to care better for the environment, however I do not feel tied together with all living things or nature or a great spirit, how could I?

By the way I'll let the sad and unfair dig on religion that you tucked into your post go, but I thought we were going to stop doing that.

Finally, as you often appeal to common sense I imagine you will agree that it is common sense that another human being is more important than just about everything else you can imagine. If an entire zoo was burning down and there was a human being trapped there and you had time to save only one thing, who or what would you save?

Quote: FrGamble

In this case I'm proof that there isn't an eternal universe because nothing of what you say is instinctual or appealing to me.

Modern society has dulled our senses.
Religion is easy, all the heavy lifting has
been done for most people. Just sit back
and relax. Religion is the breakfast cereal of
spirituality. Handy, packaged, ready to
go.

Quote:

If an entire zoo was burning down and there was a human being trapped there and you had time to save only one thing, who or what would you save?

You're confusing what's important to you
and what's important in the universe. They
aren't the same, you know.

Quote: Evenbob

You're confusing what's important to you
and what's important in the universe. They
aren't the same, you know.

Good point, I didn't think about that. However, why are the universe's values so different than my own? If the universe doesn't care any more for a human being than a cockroach than why does this seem to appeal to you? What is it's value for life (human life I should clarify).

Quote: FrGamble

Good point, I didn't think about that. However, why are the universe's values so different than my own? If the universe doesn't care any more for a human being than a cockroach than why does this seem to appeal to you? What is it's value for life (human life I should clarify).

The universe doesn't have an ego, but you do.
Why would it care more about a person
than it does about an insect, they're all the
same in the scheme of things. It's man's ego
that makes him the center and creates a
god who caters to him and him alone. Their
egos bathe in the constant glow that they are
somehow special, the apple of god's eye. It's
a child's view, where the strict daddy will always
love them if they behave, and reward them
greatly at the end.

The universe being impartial is appealing because
it makes perfect sense. That cockroach is every bit
as complicated a creature as I am, in a different
way. The world really becomes a place of wonder
when you stop looking at it as the playground god gave
you and you alone, and look at it from the perspective
that you're not any more important than anything
else. My dog is just as important as I am. He knows
this instinctively, my ego has to figure it out.