"Cult of Mary"

Quote: FrGamble

Could it perhaps have anything to do with the man who left?

You don't put much weight on god, do
you. He does zero for you and you do
everything for him, hoping he'll notice.
We call people like that enablers, they
enable the person they love to get away
with everything, without expecting
anything in return. It's always man's
fault, god is never at fault for anything.
God never gets blamed, only praised.

That's some odd stuff, dude. Reminds
me of the religious zealot in DaVinci
Code who flagellated himself with a
whip, and wore a metal apparatus on
his thigh that cut into the flesh when
he moved. All to honor god, to hope
god sees him and honors his suffering
in gods name. But that's the zealots fault, god
could care less either way, according to
you. Sick stuff indeed.

Dude, you kind of took a sick turn there, you okay? God is everything to me and has done everything for us. I really don't know what you're talking about or why you would say that?

Quote: FrGamble

I really don't know what you're talking about or why you would say that?

I was thinking about the extreme things
people do to get gods attention, and how
he gets thanked for everything and blamed
for nothing. My sister in law lost their
daughter in a drunk driving crash a few years
ago. They were really religious and were
always praying and thanking god all the
time. Since the accident they only go to
church sporadically and I never hear them
thanking god anymore.

It's like they thought praying and thanking
and going to church was some kind of
insurance policy. When something bad
happened it confused them and rocked their
faith to the core. That's why I usually treat
Christians with kid gloves, a lot of them are
not very stable people, putting their faith
is something that's not there.

What a tragic story, it makes me wonder what they would do without faith? The people you really have to worry about is folks who have no ultimate hope and live in a desperate attempt to cling to pleasure. When their make believe world comes crashing down on them they have no where to turn. They have no belief that life continues after death, that there will be ultimate justice, that this fleeting world is not all there is, that we will again see our loved ones in Heaven - what a sad existence. It is this type of latent despair without God that has lead suicide to be the epidemic it currently is. Yes, I would spend much more time worrying about those who don't believe than those who do.

Quote: FrGamble

What a tragic story, it makes me wonder what they would do without faith?

Accept it and move on, what else.

Quote:

They have no belief that life continues after death, that there will be ultimate justice, that this fleeting world is not all there is, that we will again see our loved ones in Heaven - what a sad existence. .

Not sad at all, why would it be sad? Ultimate
justice is a childs fantasy, that the wicked will
get what's coming to them 'someday'. Not
seeing your loved ones again makes you
appreciate them all the more while you have
them. This is eternity right now, padre. It's not
later, not some other 'time'. You don't get
a do-over, a second chance, a reward for
being good. Being a good person is it's own
reward, there's nothing waiting after you die
to reward you.

Quote: Evenbob

Accept it and move on, what else.

Accept what exactly. That your child is dead and gone into oblivion and is nothing but worm food. The drunk drivers who killed him/her are laughing at a bar in another state and will never come to justice. Just move on, accept that your child's life had no meaning or purpose, yes you loved your child but just move on. It might have been better if you or your son had never been born, but ah such is life while it lasts. This is our cheap, imperfect, short "eternity". If you told anyone that you should be slapped. Just accept it and move on my ass. That is sick man.

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Being a good person is it's own
reward, there's nothing waiting after you die
to reward you.

This from a guy who continues to say there is no such thing as good or bad?!? What the hell are you talking about? You have been spewing lately that there is no difference if you believe in God or not, if people pray for you or not, and now it makes a difference if you are good. What if you are good and your kid gets run over by a drunk driver or you develop cancer, where is the reward for your goodness then? What if a bad person succeeds and makes millions and lives high off the hog, if you are just looking at things from a secular godless mindset, which reward would you take?

Now don't get me wrong you stumbled upon a deep truth - goodness is it's own reward and it is our ultimate fulfillment. No matter what befalls us in life being good is always the best way to handle it and ultimately brings us true joy here on earth. However, that mindset only makes sense if you believe in God and that there is even more to the story. The suffering poor do not just eek out a life and then expire into nothingness, while the rich batten themselves on spoil and die in luxury. However, if this was really the case and in an atheist's mind this was our eternity now and the poor had a sucky one and the rich had a great one and they didn't do something to balance the economic situation in the world and speak out about social injustice with the fervor of missionaries, I would call them selfish, evil, and sick.

I should re-read this and edit, but I'm tired and stressed out, peace!

Quote: FrGamble

Accept what exactly. That your child is dead and gone into oblivion

Oblivion, how do you figure. Where were
you before you were born, oblivion?
Hardly. Something does not come out
of nothing, fact. So you were 'somewhere'.
Ever wonder why everybody is bothered
by death, but nobody questions where
they were before they were born? It's
because they know they are part of the
eternal cosmos, they've been here forever
and their soul knows it.

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Just move on, accept that your child's life had no meaning or purpose

Pretty much. What's the purpose of a tree
or a bird. It's your blasted ego that makes
you think you're superior. You are not.

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and now it makes a difference if you are good.

Only to your quality of life. It doesn't make
a difference, only to you. God who does
not exist could care less. You reap what you
sow.

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Now don't get me wrong you stumbled upon a deep truth - goodness is it's own reward and it is our ultimate fulfillment.!

Not too deep. It's not what goes around
comes around, its what goes around keeps
going round and round. Live a life of lies
and deception and foolhardy behavior, that's
what you've sown and that's what you'll get
back. God has nothing to do with it, nature
rewards a shithead with more shit. How else.

Quote: Evenbob

Something does not come out
of nothing, fact.

True, but not precise enough. You leave yourself open to someone asking then where did the eternal universe come from? Or in my case if you posit God, then someone can ask then where does God come from? The real fact is that everything that began to exist was created by something else. Since you strangely believe that the universe was not created, but has always existed you can avoid infinite regress. In the case of God He did not need to be created, because He too is eternal and the source of all existence.

Quote:

It's
because they know they are part of the
eternal cosmos, they've been here forever
and their soul knows it.

So it sounds like you are suggesting all our immortal souls are in some celestial holding pen waiting to come take possession of a human life at some point? And when we die we return to this holding pen and wait our turn again to become human? First of all it would seem from your position that human life is very special and more important than birds and trees and the like. Obviously we can do much more than any of the animals can do and according to you we have immortal cosmic souls.

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Pretty much. What's the purpose of a tree
or a bird. It's your blasted ego that makes
you think you're superior. You are not.

see above.

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Not too deep. It's not what goes around
comes around, its what goes around keeps
going round and round. Live a life of lies
and deception and foolhardy behavior, that's
what you've sown and that's what you'll get
back. God has nothing to do with it, nature
rewards a shithead with more shit. How else.

Be careful it sounds like you are describing the rules to a board game. The sad reality is you know that what you wrote is not true. The shitheads often get rewarded with more gold and lots of fame. What comes around for good people like your sister-in-law is a drunk driver. You reap what you sow only makes sense in a perfect world, which thank God awaits us all.

Quote: FrGamble

In the case of God He did not need to be created, because He too is eternal and the source of all existence.

There is no personal god who goes around
creating things. How could there be.

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First of all it would seem from your position that human life is very special and more important than birds and trees and the like..

Humans are equal to every other form
of life. It's your ego telling you you're
superior. It's your ego that wants to
live forever in heaven.

.

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The shitheads often get rewarded with more gold and lots of fame. .

But they never have peace of mind. They're
always looking over their shoulder, or substance
abusing to kill the fact that their lives are miserable.
How does any kind of monetary reward make
up for that.

Quote: Evenbob

There is no personal god who goes around
creating things. How could there be.

It's quite easy to see how their could be. There is the fact that things exist. We know that these things have come to exist and we ultimately trace all matter back to beginning we call the Big Bang, where it was created. What caused the big bang? For that we need to either continue the backwards trend of finding a creator until to avoid the impossibility of an infinite regress we arrive at a force or being that was not created, but rather has created. This entity would need to be eternal, non-contingent, all-powerful, and spiritual. Do we then have an impersonal force, a cosmic RNG, a blob of no significance that is only an eternal necessary philosophical sparkplug to get creation going and is then useless? Well the fine tuned nature of our universe seems to give evidence to the contrary. This fine tuning is done in such a way to seemingly make life as we know it. This could lead one to look closer at human beings and our radical differences in ways to many to count from all the rest of known creation. Looking at all of this together could lead one into believing in a personal God who cares very much for human beings and has created all things.

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But they never have peace of mind. They're
always looking over their shoulder, or substance
abusing to kill the fact that their lives are miserable.
How does any kind of monetary reward make
up for that.

I agree wholeheartedly. The difference is I know why this is the case - it is because they are breaking God's law and are sinning. The suffering they undergo and lack of peace of mind is a warning for something much worse. To what do you attribute this rule that those who do bad never really find peace of mind and even if on the surface are materially wealthy, they are truly miserable?