Israeli conflict

Quote: PotPie

you originally stated that the "intent" of the U.S. was to "help the people"

that is false

it only morphed into rebuilding because of the guilt that was felt because the war totally destroyed the country

now the Taliban is back and has been for 2 years

the U.S. won't be going back to "help the people"

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No, I said the intent was to not annex the country. I only used the word intent in the context of annexation. At no point was our intent to annex or gobble up Afghanistan.

Quote: Gandler

The difference is, the U.S. was trying to help the people there build a safe country.

this is from your very first post on the subject

maybe you didn't say it exactly

but you implied that "helping the people there" was the reason we went there

and obviously that is incorrect

but enough said - I can see now that you didn't mean to imply that - I can accept that

regardless, the U.S. is responsible for the death of 4 to 5 million people in Afghanistan - way, way more than Israel is responsible for - and it was all for nothing - as the Taliban is right back there now -

re annexation - Israel didn't have any intentions of that kind before October 7 - the massacre is what pushed them into considering it - as a means of protecting their citizens

and it's still not at all clear that annexation is the way it will be handled - not at all a sure thing - many different options are being considered

from the link, this is what Netanyahu was saying in August - and it may yet revert to this:


"Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Thursday, ahead of a key cabinet meeting on the next stage of the Gaza war, that Israel intends to take control of the entire Strip, then hand it over to an unspecified Arab governing force.

The premier said a “detailed plan” will be developed for this post-Hamas government, and that it will not place Israel in control of the Strip as a civil government, nor allow the Palestinian Authority to play a role.

Asked in a Fox News interview if Israel will take over the entire 26-mile strip, Netanyahu said: “We intend to, in order to assure our security, remove Hamas there, enable the population to be free of Gaza (sic), and to pass it civilian governance.” But, he stressed, “We don’t want to keep it. We want to have a security perimeter, but we don’t want to govern it. We don’t want to be there as a governing body.”"



https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-israel-intends-to-capture-all-of-gaza-hand-it-over-to-non-pa-arab-forces/


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Quote: PotPie

this is from your very first post on the subject

maybe you didn't say it exactly

but you implied that "helping the people there" was the reason we went there

and obviously that is incorrect

but enough said - I can see now that you didn't mean to imply that - I can accept that

regardless, the U.S. is responsible for the death of 4 to 5 million people in Afghanistan - way, way more than Israel is responsible for - and it was all for nothing - as the Taliban is right back there now -

re annexation - Israel didn't have any intentions of that kind before October 7 - the massacre is what pushed them into considering it - as a means of protecting their citizens

and it's still not at all clear that annexation is the way it will be handled - not at all a sure thing - many different options are being considered

from the link, this is what Netanyahu was saying in August - and it may yet revert to this:


"Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Thursday, ahead of a key cabinet meeting on the next stage of the Gaza war, that Israel intends to take control of the entire Strip, then hand it over to an unspecified Arab governing force.

The premier said a “detailed plan” will be developed for this post-Hamas government, and that it will not place Israel in control of the Strip as a civil government, nor allow the Palestinian Authority to play a role.

Asked in a Fox News interview if Israel will take over the entire 26-mile strip, Netanyahu said: “We intend to, in order to assure our security, remove Hamas there, enable the population to be free of Gaza (sic), and to pass it civilian governance.” But, he stressed, “We don’t want to keep it. We want to have a security perimeter, but we don’t want to govern it. We don’t want to be there as a governing body.”"



https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-israel-intends-to-capture-all-of-gaza-hand-it-over-to-non-pa-arab-forces/


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I don't agree with those numbers, in 2004, the population of Afghanistan was about 25 million (probably less that is using the high end of estimates.) You are saying U.S. forced killed via direct action 20% of the country in 10 years, a 10 year period where the population rapidly grew? Mathematically alone this makes no sense.

And, evidence-wise liberal estimates put us close to killing 50k civilians with military force and operations over these 10 years. Not sure I believe this either. But, 50k is the max anyone somewhat reputable says. 5 million is just absurd, no way it was anywhere close to 5 mil... Obviously a single death is too many, let alone several thousand, but let's not act like we are bombing and gunning down millions of people here. 50k over 10 years is 5k a year, way too many, but in such a war, about right statistically sadly...

Quote: Gandler

but let's not act like we are bombing and gunning down millions of people here.

I posted that we were responsible for that many deaths not that they were direct killings - they were the result of the conditions the war created

I posted this before but here it is again - from Google

AI Overview

"Indirect Deaths

The conflict led to significant indirect deaths in Afghanistan by causing destruction to infrastructure, healthcare, food, water, and the overall economy, with the Costs of War Project estimating that millions more died from these consequences.

Total Direct & Indirect Deaths

The combined direct and indirect death toll in Afghanistan and the surrounding region from post-9/11 wars is estimated to be between 4.5 and 4.7 million people, according to the Costs of War Project."

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https://www.foxnews.com/world/trump-us-trying-get-bagram-airbase-back-from-taliban-afghanistan

Well speaking of the devil. Trump wants to reoccupy Bagrahm Airbase.... And he is blaming Biden for pulling out, which I partially agree, but the plan for a complete pullout was signed by Trump (I agree Biden should have ignored it and stayed in Afghanistan.)

Trump makes a bad deal, turns over the country to the Taliban, Biden executed the deal, Trump now blames Biden and want to go back to Afghanistan. Sounds about right...

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In Historic Shift, U.K., Australia and Canada Recognize a Palestinian State

Quote: rxwine

I’m fine with a Palestinian State. It’s called Gaza now. Change its name. Let the people there self determine. Just honor the border with Israel. And if you choose to send suicide bombers, lob missiles, plan butcher and kidnap missions, be prepared for dire consequences. Let Canada, the UK, and Australia pay to rebuild it from the rubble it has become as a result of the war it started with Israel.

Quote: SOOPOO

Just honor the border with Israel.

Does Israel honor borders
Israel has always ignored borders and settle in Palestinian lands

Quote: terapined1

Does Israel honor borders
Israel has always ignored borders and settle in Palestinian lands

I’ll tell you what I’ll do. You show a map of what you consider Israeli lands. Then I’ll discuss the lands you consider ‘Palestinian’.

And I’ll add this. Show me you are willing to send an army into my country (10/7) to murder large swaths of civilians, and I’ll decide how much ‘Palestinian land’ I need to take to keep my people safe from the animals again.

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Israel and Syria have attacked each other close to the border as Israel has defended the Druze people who live in both Syria and Israel and have been attacked by both the current and former Syrian regimes

the Druze are not Jewish

from Google:

"The Druze religion has its roots in Islam, but its worshippers are not Muslim. It is a monotheistic religion with prophets who are recognized by both the Christian and Muslim religions. The Druze are ethnoreligious, meaning they form a common ethnicity and religious group.

In Israel, approximately 152 thousand Druze reside primarily in the Galilee, Carmel, and Golan Heights regions. Despite sharing linguistic and cultural ties with other Arab communities, the Druze have maintained a distinct identity

In 1948, many Druze volunteered for the Israeli army and no Druze villages were destroyed or permanently abandoned. Since the establishment of the state of Israel, the Druze have demonstrated solidarity with Israel and distanced themselves from Arab and Islamic radicalism."

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