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Quote: Gandler

Also (and most crucially), the CSA lost, which makes it lose any credibility (winners get to write history). CSA was a blip on the historical radar (what was it a couple of years total at most if being super generous with the timeline?) The fact that some people still worship it is just silly. I can't think of a great equivalency off of the top of my head, but it would be like some failed rebellion happens today, and 200 years from now people wear T-Shirts of it everywhere.

Quote: kenarman

You mean like when the Indians lost the war to the US on expansion in the West. It's now forgotten, a foot note in history.

Quote: Gandler

Exactly.

Quote: jcw09

Well 2024 is going to be the year all three seats of power flip red.

Quote: Gandler

I don't think I would characterize myself in that way, but I do like Central control and unity (and social uniformity). And, anyone who tries to break away from their native country is treasonous (I would like to see the USA get larger, not broken up, we need more states IMO).

The USA was treasonous in breaking away from Britain, but it was a quite different scenario. I could see myself being either a hardcore patriot (for lack of a better term) or loyalist depending on where I lived in colonial America (tactics and desires were vastly different across the colonies, with some areas basically just being what would be called terrorists in the modern sense, and I doubt I would sympathize with them, and the British military was impressive).

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I sympathize with Lincoln and probably would have supported him, he thought slavery was an important issue, but he cared more about preserving the territory than anything else (and was willing to sacrifice social issues for such), which is (and would have been) my mindset.

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That being said equating the CSA and USA is very dishonest. The CSA was about slavery and preserving the historical status quo , the USA was about freedom (for some). England was a global power, with territories all over from India to USA, and everywhere in between. Wanting to be locally autonomous is very different than wanting to preserve slavery. It can be argued (actually its factually true), that if England won, slavery in USA would have ended sooner.

Also (and most crucially), the CSA lost, which makes it lose any credibility (winners get to write history). CSA was a blip on the historical radar (what was it a couple of years total at most if being super generous with the timeline?) The fact that some people still worship it is just silly. I can't think of a great equivalency off of the top of my head, but it would be like some failed rebellion happens today, and 200 years from now people wear T-Shirts of it everywhere.

Quote: Gandler

Exactly.

Quote: AZDuffman

Just so I can check on if you are consistent, should flags of Indian nations not be flown and should statues of Indian warriors be taken down since they were a rebellion against the USA?

Indians did support slavery and own slaves after all.

Quote: Gandler

By governments? No. And, Indian Reservations should not exist, this is a major issue I have, there should be no "sovereign nations" within USA.

Individuals can fly whatever flags they want including Indian flags and Confederate Flags, but governments should not fly such flags.

As for statues it depends what you mean by "Indian Warriors", if they fought against USA, yes they should be taken down (or moved to a museum), statues for those on the right side can remain. There are many statues for historically Native Units in the Armed Forces, I have no issues with this. Again, this is regarding govenemt funded parks, I could care less what private land chooses to display.

Quote: kenarman

You really need to get up to speed on the issue G. The Indians consider the US a foreign nation on their lands. They actually agree with you that their should be no "sovereign nations" on their lands.