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Quote: Gandler

By governments? No. And, Indian Reservations should not exist, this is a major issue I have, there should be no "sovereign nations" within USA.

Individuals can fly whatever flags they want including Indian flags and Confederate Flags, but governments should not fly such flags.

As for statues it depends what you mean by "Indian Warriors", if they fought against USA, yes they should be taken down (or moved to a museum), statues for those on the right side can remain. There are many statues for historically Native Units in the Armed Forces, I have no issues with this. Again, this is regarding govenemt funded parks, I could care less what private land chooses to display.

So should they be taken down or put in a museum? You cannot have it both ways.

Quote: AZDuffman

So should they be taken down or put in a museum? You cannot have it both ways.

Of course you can, massive difference between a statue in a public park prominently displayed and archived in a museum for historical purposes.

Quote: kenarman

You really need to get up to speed on the issue G. The Indians consider the US a foreign nation on their lands. They actually agree with you that their should be no "sovereign nations" on their lands.

My problem is they lost, all tribes that were here when Europeans arrived took the land by force from others. They lost the next round. It's just reality. The idea that they were peaceful hippies who existed in harmony and evil Europeans took over their lands is comical. There were thousands of tribes, and they all fought over land. Some were basically Empires and took land by force (and were even less humane than the worst Europeans if you look at human sacrifice).

But, all of that is irrelevant, even if they were the greatest people in the world, and were colonized, they lost. They can join the USA like everyone else or move elsewhere.

Therein is the reality of humanity: we conquer.

Always have, from cave man days through the present.

Think about how the European nations blithely decided to take and control parts of Africa and the New World.

Nothing subtle about it: a pure power play.

Those who lose are consigned to the dustbin of history.

Yeah, what we did to the indigenous residents of the Americas sucks, in hindsight, but is it really fair to judge by today's optics, or should it not be put into context and judged based on the prevailing social, political and cultural mores of the time?

Quote: Gandler

Of course you can, massive difference between a statue in a public park prominently displayed and archived in a museum for historical purposes.

How? Is a statue in a park hurting you somehow?

Quote: missedhervee

Therein is the reality of humanity: we conquer.

Always have, from cave man days through the present.

Think about how the European nations blithely decided to take and control parts of Africa and the New World.

Nothing subtle about it: a pure power play.

Those who lose are consigned to the dustbin of history.

Yeah, what we did to the indigenous residents of the Americas sucks, in hindsight, but is it really fair to judge by today's optics, or should it not be put into context and judged based on the prevailing social, political and cultural mores of the time?

So your position would be the blacks slaves brought to N. America were just the spoils of war and should get over it?

Quote: AZDuffman

How? Is a statue in a park hurting you somehow?

You are completely missing the point and keep moving the goalposts.

(It's the difference between preserving a statue in a deferential way, and preserving in a historical way). I am fine with Nazi statues in a museum, I would not be fine with Nazi statues in a park. One publicly honors the figure, the other just archives for historical purposes.

Quote: kenarman

So your position would be the blacks slaves brought to N. America were just the spoils of war and should get over it?

Close, but no cigar.

There was no "war" involved, unless you consider the capturing of blacks by blacks of other tribes who them sold then to white slavers to be "war."

No, not war: conquest and exploitation.

Slavery was nothing new then, it was just the way things were.

Yeah, blacks today need to "get over it," i.e. accept the reality and give up the notion of deserving reparations.

Same with the native Americans: get over it, move on.

Then again, perhaps if these once conquered peoples acquire sufficient power they in turn could attempt to "conquer" and possibly "enslave" the whites: fair is fair, right?

BTW the brown folks are reclaiming the American SW as we speak: look how their numbers increase in So Cal while the white's numbers decrease; notice the prevalance of use of the Spanish language there and the hispanic cultural influence.

Quote: missedhervee

Close, but no cigar.

There was no "war" involved, unless you consider the capturing of blacks by blacks of other tribes who them sold then to white slavers to be "war."

No, not war: conquest and exploitation.

Slavery was nothing new then, it was just the way things were.

Yeah, blacks today need to "get over it," i.e. accept the reality and give up the notion of deserving reparations.

Same with the native Americans: get over it, move on.

Then again, perhaps if these once conquered peoples acquire sufficient power they in turn could attempt to "conquer" and possibly "enslave" the whites: fair is fair, right?

BTW the brown folks are reclaiming the American SW as we speak: look how their numbers increase in So Cal while the white's numbers decrease; notice the prevalance of use of the Spanish language there and the hispanic cultural influence.

Fair enough I have no problem with consistent position. Birth rate is a very powerful but long term weapon.

Quote: missedhervee

Same with the native Americans: get over it, move on.

Nope
We need to honor treaties signed by the US govt