In The News Today...

Quote: TheCesspit

Not, he'll be replaced by a member of his own party. The Conservatives have long been split over the EU question.

To be fair, it's a complex question. Which is precisely the reason you do not let the electorate make policy decisions. People most often vote their perceived interest as informed by prejudices and predilections, with some actual knowledge of the issue for seasoning. This is not all bad, but it fails terribly when it comes to big matters affecting many facets of the economy, politics and every day life.

There are problems with the EU, from spendthrift populism to overregulation and more. Many of these can be fixed or reformed, but Britain missed the chance to do so by leaving. Threatening to leave, though, would make for a powerful negotiating tool.

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Scotland will claim for independence again, I think.

But leaving GB, even if they can do so, also carries a great big downside.

Texas mother a gun rights advocate
quote from her facebook page

"It would be horribly tragic if my ability to protect myself or my family were to be taken away,
but that's exactly what Democrats are determined to do by banning semi-automatic handguns."

She guns down her 2 daughters in front of their nice suburban home then when the police arrive, refuses to put down her gun and is killed
sad


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/texas-mother-killed-cops-fatally-shooting-daughters-article-1.2687929

Quote: terapined

Texas mother a gun rights advocate
quote from her facebook page

"It would be horribly tragic if my ability to protect myself or my family were to be taken away,
but that's exactly what Democrats are determined to do by banning semi-automatic handguns."

She guns down her 2 daughters in front of their nice suburban home then when the police arrive, refuses to put down her gun and is killed
sad


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/texas-mother-killed-cops-fatally-shooting-daughters-article-1.2687929

Quote: Nareed

To be fair, it's a complex question. Which is precisely the reason you do not let the electorate make policy decisions. People most often vote their perceived interest as informed by prejudices and predilections, with some actual knowledge of the issue for seasoning. This is not all bad, but it fails terribly when it comes to big matters affecting many facets of the economy, politics and every day life.

There are problems with the EU, from spendthrift populism to overregulation and more. Many of these can be fixed or reformed, but Britain missed the chance to do so by leaving. Threatening to leave, though, would make for a powerful negotiating tool.

Cameron had already got some changes through by the threat of leaving, and the idea of removing 'the ever closer union' was a good one. The 'over regulation' parts are in someways true, but in other ways magnified excessively at times when people fall foul of a sub clause designed in general to protect consumers (bendy cucumbers and straight bananas aside). Having a single set of rules made life easier for many manufacturers, driving prices down.

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But leaving GB, even if they can do so, also carries a great big downside.

IF Scotland can tie in leaving the UK (Not Great Britain, Great Britain does not include Northern Ireland, and yes that is confusing) to also joining the EU after devolution, they'd probably have some advantages. Banking in Scotland is a big industry, and if London has removed itself from the mix with Euro banking, Edinburgh could pick up some of that slack.

I doubt it will happen that way, but you can expect a period of poilitically instability in the UK right now... the Tories are split; the Labour party has been shaky since the election of Socialist Jeremy Corbin; the Liberal Democrats are a zombie party, but have the most to gain right now as they've been internally consistent on Europe and many other policies. The only really functioning party at the moment are the Scottish Nationalists (left wing nationalists, not right wing ones), and the majority of the Northern Irish parties.

I am sure Trump will be pleased to tell us how long he's supported Sinn Fein for...

Tragic, she suddenly thought the two daughters would grow up to vote Democratic. Justifiable homicide.

Quote: TheCesspit

The 'over regulation' parts are in someways true, but in other ways magnified excessively at times when people fall foul of a sub clause designed in general to protect consumers (bendy cucumbers and straight bananas aside). Having a single set of rules made life easier for many manufacturers, driving prices down.

I've been hearing many noble slogans concerning regulations, but I wonder what type of regulations the UK issues domestically, or will issue domestically or did in the past. Those calling the EU tyranny forget tyranny works as well locally as it does regionally.

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IF Scotland can tie in leaving the UK (Not Great Britain, Great Britain does not include Northern Ireland, and yes that is confusing) to also joining the EU after devolution, they'd probably have some advantages.

How long would it take Scotland to first leave and then rejoin the EU? And will the Scots feel so strongly for that long to get it done?

No idea how long between leaving the UK and joining the EU.... I suggest if they can make a single step, then it'd be hugely popular right now, and also solve a lot of the devolution problems (like money, trade, etc). I think devolution would take 2-3 years in an ideal world. Joining the EU as a new nation 3-10 years. There's various elements they need to do normally to join the EU club.

Of course, with a Brexit, you'd have to put up some level of border controls between England and Scotland. That'd be non-trivial, the official border is along a cold wind swept moorland. Or near Carlisle. Which is much the same, except people live there.

Quote: TheCesspit

I think devolution would take 2-3 years in an ideal world. Joining the EU as a new nation 3-10 years. There's various elements they need to do normally to join the EU club.

You make it sound as though reconciling the interests of hundreds of millions of people living in varying locations is not an easy thing to do...

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Of course, with a Brexit, you'd have to put up some level of border controls between England and Scotland. That'd be non-trivial, the official border is along a cold wind swept moorland. Or near Carlisle. Which is much the same, except people live there.

As much as I'd pay money to watch English wetbacks, it's just not worth splintering Europe further.

The best thing to do would be for the next PM to say the referendum was not binding, and only if we cannot reach a better deal with the EU would we really leave. This is so reasonable a position, IMO, that it has about as much chance of happening, as winning the lottery three times in succession with the same number.

Quote: Nareed

The best thing to do would be for the next PM to say the referendum was not binding, and only if we cannot reach a better deal with the EU would we really leave. This is so reasonable a position, IMO, that it has about as much chance of happening, as winning the lottery three times in succession with the same number.

Actually, I suspect that is what will happen... and they'll be a whole heap of poop afterwards. Both Gove, Johnson (an American by birth, and part Turkish by ancestry) and Duncan-Smith have all been on record -already- to claim that leaving the EU won't mean leaving the single market, won't free up money for the NHS and won't reduce immigration. Three of the central pillars of the leave campaign. As I've said, normally they don't show how much they've lied in the first week after a win.

It's a mess... the far right are using the whole thing as a sign for increased racial abuse on the streets and in the public life of Britain. Which is sad, as many voted to leave not for a fear of immigrants, but an over-riding sense of that the politicians in London weren't helping them (the free ride, in some cases, and small-c conservative values in others).

Nareed your President and my Prime Minister seem to be BFF now. They were out jogging together this morning.