How often do you fly on Business or First Class

Quote: Pacomartin

See, I don't think these three Citations can fly 3433 miles, even with just two passengers. I don't know what they are rated for with a reduced payload. In any event they would probably cost more $20K each way to lease.

You are correct. I think the longest range of our three is around 1500 miles.

Quote: Pacomartin

So right now there is only one residence per plane.

Thanks.

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The Residence makes joining the mile high club not even a challenge.

If one can join it solo, there's no challenge anywhere ;)

Emirates has finally released their configuration of the two class A380.

Like the previous version of the A380 Emirates will have 427 economy seats in the deck.
But instead of the configuration of 14 closed suites and 76 flat bed business seats on the upper deck, it will have zero closed suites, 58 flat bed business seats and 130 economy seats on the upper deck.

Etihad will have 415 economy seats on the first deck.
They have 9 closed suites and 70 flat bed business seats on the upper deck, plus "The Residence"

Etihad argues that private jet rental is 10X the cost of flying in "The Residence". I suspect that is true, but business jets usually have at least 8-14 passenger seats, while The Residence can only accommodate 2 people.

Quote: Pacomartin

But instead of the configuration of 14 closed suites and 76 flat bed business seats on the upper deck, it will have zero closed suites, 58 flat bed business seats and 130 economy seats on the upper deck.

interesting. it would seem the ultra-premium seats were not selling nearly as well as hoped? I suppose they'll still have first class in other craft, though.

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Etihad argues that private jet rental is 10X the cost of flying in "The Residence". I suspect that is true, but business jets usually have at least 8-14 passenger seats, while The Residence can only accommodate 2 people.

It might still make sense for rich people on vacation with their lover :)

The other thing a private jet can do is change its schedule to suit the travelers. Say you're planning on flying 6 people from LA to Dallas for work, and you estimate the return at 5 pm. But the work gets done by lunch time. Why, then the jet can get back to LA at 2 rather than 5, and even make a stop elsewhere on the way. No need to find seats in earlier flights and/or deal with added fees for changing flights.

You know what I'd love to do once in my life? Fly a commercial frame done up as a large business jet. A 737 or A320 would be enough.

Quote: Nareed

interesting. it would seem the ultra-premium seats were not selling nearly as well as hoped? I suppose they'll still have first class in other craft, though.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that Emirates is removing first class from their current fleet of 67 A380s. They are starting a flight on December 2015 to Copenhagen, which will be the initial two-class (i.e. no first class) A380 carrying 615 passengers .

I am not sure of the exact reasoning. Certainly Copenhagen is not a poorer city than Manchester (MAN) or Prague (PRG). I suspect their environmental sensitivities are higher. Some executives (or their corporations) keep track of their "carbon footprint" and purchase "carbon offsets" often in the form of trees. If you are selling tickets to Copenhagen it may be easier to sell 58 flat bed business seats and 130 economy seats on the upper deck instead of 14 closed suites and 76 flat bed business seats. A jet with over 600 seats has a much lower carbon footprint per seat than more elaborate seating.

In any case it has to be good news for Airbus. They finally have an airline that is collecting hard data using the A380 in a more efficient manner. With air traffic increasing around the world, Airbus is still hoping to sell the A380 to more practical airlines that will fly the jet with an all economy class seating.

Quote: Nareed

It might still make sense for rich people on vacation with their lover :)

I have seen business jets configured with bedrooms to be indulgent to two people. But I doubt you can lease these kind of configurations.

A leasing company has to figure that it is much easier to find a team of business executives who can justify the cost of the lease by the salaries of the passengers and the need to get to your destination refreshed, and to be flexible in your return time.



Prince Charles spent £446,159 (=11,329,000 pesos) on a charter lease for a week to fly from London to Bogota - Cartagena - Mexico City - Campeche - Mexico City - & Monterrey .


His son, Prince Henry of Wales also visited Latin America a few months earlier. He flew scheduled flights from London to Brazil £43,872 and then leased a smaller jet to fly him around Brazil (Sao Paulo - Brasilia - Belo Horizonte - Sao Paulo) for £41,754.

Since Prince Charles is a famous environmental activist. I think he has to purchase carbon offsets for those jet charters.

The figures for these two trips can give you some idea what it costs to travel over the ocean with a royal entourage. So for even the most self indulgent sheik it is still cheaper for him to fly to London or Sydney in "The Residence" and then lease a helicopter or smaller jet locally than it is to fly the entire trip in a private jet.

Quote: Pacomartin

In any case it has to be good news for Airbus. They finally have an airline that is collecting hard data using the A380 in a more efficient manner. With air traffic increasing around the world, Airbus is still hoping to sell the A380 to more practical airlines that will fly the jet with an all economy class seating.

I doubt any airline wants to do away with the revenue potential from premium seats in HUGE airplanes. Not when even regional jets offer it on 40 minute flights.

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I have seen business jets configured with bedrooms to be indulgent to two people. But I doubt you can lease these kind of configurations.

Rather odd photo. Did you notice the bed and sideboard block the emergency exists? I'm thinking perhaps it's a long non-functioning plane reconfigured as a hotel room. There are a few around, including an, I believe B-727 used as a multi-room hotel in South America.

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A leasing company has to figure that it is much easier to find a team of business executives who can justify the cost of the lease by the salaries of the passengers and the need to get to your destination refreshed, and to be flexible in your return time.

See, the exits are not obstructed in the second picture.

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Prince Charles

I'm reminded of what Caesar said of the Ptolemies in "Cleopatra" :)

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The figures for these two trips can give you some idea what it costs to travel over the ocean with a royal entourage. So for even the most self indulgent sheik it is still cheaper for him to fly to London or Sydney in "The Residence" and then lease a helicopter or smaller jet locally than it is to fly the entire trip in a private jet.

Well, you figure the sheik will fly as he likes, and his entourage can take coach for 29 hours and three layovers. the problem is when he needs to have a secretary, physician and food taster along, I guess.

Quote: Nareed

Well, you figure the sheik will fly as he likes, and his entourage can take coach for 29 hours and three layovers. the problem is when he needs to have a secretary, physician and food taster along, I guess.

I think what they do is purchase full price business seats for the Princes and their party, and then British Airways quietly upgrade the Prince and Princess to first class.

Quote: Pacomartin

Prince Charles spent £446,159 (=11,329,000 pesos) on a charter lease for a week to fly from London to Bogota - Cartagena - Mexico City - Campeche - Mexico City - & Monterrey .
His son, Prince Henry of Wales also visited Latin America a few months earlier. He flew scheduled flights from London to Brazil £43,872 (=1,115,000 pesos) and then leased a smaller jet to fly him around Brazil (Sao Paulo - Brasilia - Belo Horizonte - Sao Paulo) for £41,754.(=1,061,000 pesos)

It's a little difficult to compare because you don't know exactly how big the entourage is or what kind of jets were leased. But I think Prince Charles travels with about 20 people, while Prince Harry probably travels with less than half a dozen. On William and Katherine trip to LA in 2011, William and Kate had just a seven-deep entourage.

£12,814.96 The Residence
£2,412.96 First Freedom
£2,269.96 Business Freedom
£536.96 Economy Freedom

So Prince Harry's expenditure would buy the Residence for two people, and 4 Business class seats. Or he could try and purchase all 9 first class seats for privacy.

It's not an accurate comparison, as Brazil is much further from London than Abu Dhabi.

So Prince Charles has 5 intermediate local flights in Latin America, while Prince Harry has only 3. But Charles spends 5X as much .

Quote: Nareed

Someone asked me about the Residence one of the Gulf airlines is offering for about $40,000 one-way.

Talking about it, it occurred to me perhaps the target customer are people who own their own private jets, but may not want to fly them to certain destinations, or not on long-haul flights, or which are down for maintenance. The costs might be roughly in the same ballpark.

~$21,000 one-way London to Abu Dhabi
~$25,500 one-way Abu Dhabi to Sydney
~$40,000 one-way London to Abu Dhabi to Sydney

That's a lot of money. Two first class seats one way in a Singapore Airlines A380 nonstop Total travel time 12hrs 50mins $15,000 (Including taxes and surcharges)
($7500 per one way ticket)

A suite doesn't have a shower, a private bathroom, a butler or a living room. It also doesn't have walls that go to the ceiling. But you don't have to change planes in Abu Dhabi.


But I can't see how you could justify the price jump from $15K to $40K.

You know, even if I had the money for The Residence, and were travelling there, I'd probably opt for an economy plus ticket and spend the money on several nights at a luxury hotel.

What can $2,500 per night (tax included) get you in the way of a really nice suite?

Quote: Nareed

You know, even if I had the money for The Residence, and were travelling there, I'd probably opt for an economy plus ticket and spend the money on several nights at a luxury hotel.

What can $2,500 per night (tax included) get you in the way of a really nice suite?

In Manhattan, it would get you a Parkview Suite at Ritz Carlton Central Park


In Singapore is a hotel called Wanderlust that is cutting edge design. It's like staying in a sculpture. Rooms are usually less than $200, so you could stay for a week for $2500.