Hey FrGamble!

Quote: Evenbob

The dictionary definition:


su·per·nat·u·ral
/ˌso͞opərˈnaCH(ə)rəl/
attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.

If science can prove that some
kids accurately remember past
lives, that's hardly supernatural.
We just don't know the explanation.
Like I said we really don't yet know
what electricity is. Lots of theories,
but nobody is calling it supernatural,
even though it fits. It looks magical.

Do you think understanding electricity is beyond scientific understanding or outside the laws of nature? It is not. There is a difference between not knowing something scientific and the inability for science to know something. Science cannot test or verify the immortal soul. It is not science to discover the strange knowledge of young kids about seemingly past lives. That is observation but how do you test it or run experiments to prove hypotheses about this phenomenon? It is not scientifically knowable. That is not to say it is not knowable, there are plenty of supernatural reasons we can posit for this observable rare phenomenon. Your theory of reincarnation is one of them.

Quote:

You make a bunch of claims that
can in no way be verified as even
being true, like Jesus walked on
water and will give you anything
you ask for. That's supernatural
mumbo jumbo,

Science cannot prove that Jesus walked on water, just like science cannot verify that these children's souls have been reincarnated. It's all supernatural mumbo jumbo that depends on our understanding of metaphysics, religion, faith, and our belief in the supernatural.

https://youtu.be/1muGlca1ibI

"Traditional Navajo View on Death and Grieving"

Quote: FrGamble

I am absolutely flabbergasted

Aren't you always, though? Just appalled?

Who should I believe, your Church
or Bart Ehrman.. Hmmm, not even
close.

"Origen’s view that souls existed before being born as humans related to his view that in the end, all things — including the most wicked beings in the universe — will convert and return to God: salvation for all! Also connected to this idea was Origen’s notion that after death people would be reborn to, in a sense, “give it another go.” Origen is our most famous Christian proponent of the idea of reincarnation... Possibly our most intriguing instance of reincarnation belief in the early church occurred among a group of so-called “Gnostic” Christians attacked by the heresy-hunter Irenaeus in his five-volume work Against the Heresies (185 CE). Anyone who had not had the full human experience – in every way — had to come back and try it again, until every possible experience had been undergone." Bart Ehrman

The early Church had so quash
stuff like this, people can't go
around thinking they'll come
back to try again. It completely
goes against the black and white
of what they were selling. Heaven
or hell, take your pick. But this
is the only life you get, you
who was born blind with only
one leg. Tough luck for you.

Quote: FrGamble

Science cannot prove that Jesus walked on water, just like science cannot verify that these children's souls have been reincarnated.

What they can verify is the kids
are telling the truth, and that's
how things start on the way to
understanding the whole process.
And taking it out of the realm of
the supernatural. Nobody will
ever verify Jesus walking on water
because it totally defies the laws
of nature and reason.

Most of what we do now, microwaves,
cell phones, TV, cars, the internet,
on and on, would have got you burned
at the stake 300 years ago for magic
and witchcraft. And your Church would
have done the burning. But slowly,
step by step, we discovered and we
learned and we debunked those
Dark Ages views with science. And we're
slowly but surely proving reincarnation
is a natural part of the life cycle.

I'm actually a fan of Origen and believe it or not I like Bart Ehrman as well, even though I believe he is wrong about a lot of things. He is right in this quote. Origen believed all kinds of strange things that were unorthodox. He even castrated himself taking the Gospel about cutting off whatever causes you to sin literally. So obviously he is not a Saint and he doesn't represent the whole Church, nor do gnostic sects who are obviously not part of the Church. Maybe you should reword your post to say that some people who called themselves Christian believed in some type of reincarnation. Instead you said the Church believed in it for a time and you sited some crazy websites talking about the Church silencing some super secret teaching of Jesus. Do you see the difference between a rational statement and crazy talk?

Quote: FrGamble

nstead you said the Church believed in it for a time

I said it was widely taught
by early Xtions until the
Church quashed it when
it got organized. Widely
taught meaning here and
there.
You can't
have people thinking they
might get a 2nd chance,
that totally nullifies the
'better hurry, you don't
have much time' message
of the religion. Repent,
get baptized and hunker
down waiting for judgement
day.

Quote: Evenbob

I said it was widely taught
by early Xtions until the
Church quashed it when
it got organized.

Please let's be honest about what we can see just a few posts ago. No matter how you try to get out of it now I hope you see that one interesting theologian and a heretical gnostic sect does not mean that it is well know and verified or even that something like reincarnation was widely taught by the Church. It was not at all and this is just historical fact. If you say otherwise you sound like someone shouting the Earth is flat.

Quote:

You can't
have people thinking they
might get a 2nd chance,

You really have no real understanding of Christianity at all do you? Do you know what mercy is? Do you know about forgiveness?

Quote: FrGamble

something like reincarnation was widely taught by the Church.

Do you even read what I
write before you go off
on a tangent? I said widely
means taught here and
there, which it was. And
was the Church really a
'church' before the decided
what went into the NT?
They had hundreds of
gospel copies floating
around, nobody knew
what was what.

Quote:

Do you know what mercy is? Do you know about forgiveness?

So you equate forgiveness (which
is not possible in reality) with
reincarnation? Really? Your
dependence on concepts over
reality is breathtaking sometimes.
Your entire life is lived in the
netherland of pretending
conceptual thinking has any
validity in the real world.
No wonder your Church is in
freefall with a priest and nun
shortage, nobody wants to play
these silly games anymore.

I sure enough know I don't want to play your silly and made-up game anymore.

Quote: FrGamble

I sure enough know I don't want to play your silly and made-up game anymore.

Aren't you leaving soon on your
soul saving sojourn to some
impoverished hell hole where
they never heard of Jesus?
They think their lives are miserable
now, just wait till you tell them they're
filthy sinners who are going to
be punished forever if they don't
do what you tell them. Spreading
the joy wherever you go..