Hey FrGamble!

Quote: FrGamble

real history and facts about the Inquisition, witch trials, crusades, and the Galileo affair.

Priests remind me of tobacco company
execs. Their industry also has a horrible
history of lying and death and misleading
people. So the average exec lives with
this by being in denial, by telling himself
his company made innocent mistakes
in the 20's thru the 80's. He knows the
truth, but if he admitted it to himself,
he would have to find another job. Just
like Catholic priests would.

I know my Church has made mistakes. I also know that my Church has been and continues to be the largest charitable organization on Earth helping more people than any government or other institution and it is usually those that other forget and the poorest of the poor. I also know that the mistakes the Church has made in the long distant past and even some more recently have been greatly exaggerated and made into myths by strong anti-Catholic forces. I also know that even in what we now clearly see as mistakes and egregious actions by the Church when put into context the Church compared with governments and other institutions leads the way toward human rights and justice. I know that this is not a good argument because the Church should be held to a higher standard because of its beliefs and its founder. Yet I ask atheists who reject the idea of God to instead of judging us on what we should have done because of our religious teachings judge us rather according to a historical accurate understanding of what we did in the context of the times.

Quote: FrGamble

I know my Church has made mistakes. I also know that my Church has been and continues to be the largest charitable organization on Earth

This is exactly how all organizations
accused of wrong doing respond.
Yes we're despicable, but we balanced
it out with building hospitals and
starting charities.

It's not about that, it's about why the
despicable things were OK to do in
the first place. The answer is, because
you thought you could get away with
it. The Church got the vast majority of
it's wealth by stealing it, taking it by
force, or inventing laws which made
it look like confiscating it was legal.

To this day the Vatican has ongoing
lawsuits brought by prominent Jewish
families in Europe who had their property
seized by the Church 500 years ago. They
want it back, as is their right.

Quote: Evenbob

It's not about that, it's about why the
despicable things were OK to do in
the first place.

They weren't ok in the first place, they would never be okay. I'm glad you are such a supporter with me of universal moral truths that do not change no matter the time or circumstances. Since we both know that moral truths do not evolve then we can join together in our condemnation of such evils in the past.

Quote:

The answer is, because
you thought you could get away with
it.

Really?!? For all your rallying against the Parker Bros. mentality of the Church and its reward for good and punishment for bad you seem to think we don't really hold it after all. Do you think any Christian thinks they can get away with evil? Read Matthew chapter 25 for your answer.

Also please remember that the Church's history is really about the saints not those who failed to follow the teachings of Christ.

Quote: Evenbob

To this day the Vatican has ongoing
lawsuits brought by prominent Jewish
families in Europe who had their property
seized by the Church 500 years ago. They
want it back, as is their right.

Because they are Jews or because the church confiscated it?

Quote: FrGamble

Also please remember that the Church's history is really about the saints.

The Church's history is really about power
and wealth, you should read it sometime.
The history not rewritten by the Vatican.

Quote: petroglyph

Because they are Jews or because the church confiscated it?

Both. The Church would ferret out
the Jews in cities and towns because
they often owned the biggest
businesses and most property.
They would forcefully convert
them to Xtionity, and then confiscate
all their property when the Jews
backslid into their old ways.

It was a Church scheme that worked
for hundreds of years. The Vatican
still has most of that property, their
holdings are so vast even they have
trouble keeping track of it.

Bob, you are speaking lies.

Quote: FrGamble

Bob, you are speaking lies.

A couple years ago I sent you an article
about how the Church got it's wealth.
It was extremely long, extremely detailed,
had tons of footnotes and verified information.
I bugged and bugged you about reading
it and you never did. Or you did and just
dismissed it. How do you think the Church
got so wealthy, donations in the plate
from the congregation? Get real, they got
it by thievery and deception, just like
most great wealth is acquired.

I think I do remember reading it. If I remember right it was from some wacked out web-site that was promoting all kinds of bogus and scary things. That you would even think such biased and awful writing is your source is really sad. I'm wondering if you read it or if you just thought it looked legit and had footnotes.