Hey FrGamble!

Quote: FrGamble

There are no stages. They all exist simultaneously.

Why is that not worshipping multiple Gods if they are different entities? If they are not different entities it seems to me then there is only 'God', why give him different names.

Our belief is that there is one God in three persons. Each person of the Blessed Trinity is consubstantial, meaning truly and fully God. The nature of God is love, hence community. Father, Son, and Spirit loving each so perfectly and completely that they are united as one yet still distinct persons.

Quote: FrGamble

How is Jesus Christ to know that He cannot die, He is fully human

Your own church claims Jesus
had 'full awareness' of his
divinity three years before
he died. You act like that
means absolutely nothing.

HE KNEW HE WAS GOD! What
about that statement don't
you understand? If in the
myth that's true, he knew that
gods cannot die. A god cannot
be killed. And indeed, HE WASN'T
KILLED! He was up and walking
and talking 3 days later!!!!

Again, for the umpteenthe time,
where was this huge sacrifice
that changed the world? He
was fully aware of his divinity,
aware that as such, gods never
die, and he proved it by rising
from the dead. WHERE IS THE
SACRIFICE in all this? You madly
dance around the question like
all Xtians do, but can't answer
because there was obviously NO
real sacrifice.And without that
your whole religion DOA.

I realized this when I was in the
Xtian group and nobody would
talk about it. They hated me for
even bringing it up. Why couldn't
I just accept it and shut up. Nice
to see not a thing has changed.

Quote: Evenbob

Your own church claims Jesus
had 'full awareness' of his
divinity three years before
he died. You act like that
means absolutely nothing.

My Church claims that Jesus knew of His divinity before His baptism as well, but nevertheless it is the BIGGEST deal ever!!! God has become incarnate, there is no bigger news than that.

Quote:

HE KNEW HE WAS GOD! What
about that statement don't
you understand? If in the
myth that's true, he knew that
gods cannot die. A god cannot
be killed.

I understand the statement; what I don't understand is why you think that means God can't suffer and die? Do you think that Jesus knew He couldn't die? What gives you that impression? A God who becomes fully man can be killed, why couldn't He?

Quote:

And indeed, HE WASN'T
KILLED! He was up and walking
and talking 3 days later!!!!

I appreciate your new found faith in the Resurrection.

Quote:

He was fully aware of his divinity,
aware that as such, gods never
die, and he proved it by rising
from the dead.

You are saying two different things. 1. He was fully aware of divinity. Check, we are on the same page. 2. He was fully aware that as such, God never dies. Wrong, this is where we differ. He had perfect faith and trust in God His Heavenly Father but He didn't know it in the sense you think would take away the notion of sacrifice. Have you read Genesis 22 yet? Because I think that will give you a good picture, Abraham's faith is a foreshadowing of not only the sacrifice of Jesus but of Jesus' trust in the Father.
You are correct in that the Father raised Jesus from the dead as He promised but that proves not only Jesus' divinity but also that if we have the same faith and trust in the Father we too will rise again to eternal glory.

Here is a question for you that I think will solve this whole issue for you: If I am certain that I will go to Heaven after I die and because of that I willingly volunteer in a concentration camp to take the place of a prisoner to be executed and I am tortured, starved, beaten, poisoned, and finally shot. Does my certainty that I am going to go to Heaven mean that I didn't really suffer or sacrifice anything?

Quote: FrGamble

1. He was fully aware of divinity. Check, we are on the same page. 2. He was fully aware that as such, God never dies. Wrong,

So being aware that you're god,
which the word divine means,
gives you no benefits whatever?
Your church states Jesus was
'fully aware' he was god (divine).
What exactly does that awareness
mean? If I was aware I was also
the all seeing, all knowing god
who created the universe, and
human at the same time, that
would seem to give me a huge
edge over everybody else.

Yet you imply it gave Jesus no
edge whatsoever. He was just
as abysmally ignorant as
everybody else at that time.
You do realize you aren't making
any sense, right? You want
contradictory conclusions to
be true at the same time.

Again, it's why there are sooooo
many versions of this religion.
It cannot be explained with any
degree of clarity, because it's
nonsense. Therefore people latch
onto an explanation that appeals
to them and reject the rest. That's
just nuts. An atheist rejects all
of it out of hand, as any person
with reason and logic would.

Bob I promise I will try to answer you, even though I think you already know the answer (spoiler alert: it is a BIG Deal to know you are divine).

Before that I just want to call your attention to something. You jump all over the place like a cat on a hot tin roof. This thread was having a good discussion on the neccessary existence of God, in the most general sense. There was some agreement and common ground being found. Then you derail us with some rant about Jesus didn't suffer. Even in the midst of this discussion you jump to extremes and say that I said things I never said. For example, you seem to say that I jave said Our Blessed Lord and Savior was ignorant. It pains me just to write what you insinuate, so you can imagine how I felt when I read your comments.
One other thing that is really frustrating is that when you are challenged by something or realize you are wrong you just ignore questions and never acknowledge other's points. Yet there have been many times you have demanded immediate responses from others. In all it seems like you are more interested in dancing and dodging then really engaging. Just an observation.

Quote: FrGamble

(spoiler alert: it is a BIG Deal to know you are divine).
.

Start there. What do you think
being fully aware that you are
god in a mans body means. How
does it make your perspective
on life different from other peoples.
So far your explanations have
been contradictory and confusing.

Quote: Evenbob

Start there. What do you think
being fully aware that you are
god in a mans body means. How
does it make your perspective
on life different from other peoples.
So far your explanations have
been contradictory and confusing.

I think Padre thinks he wins arguments because people (like me) eventually get bored with listening to circular reasoning and excuses for every logical fallacy he is faced with:


Jesus is God
BUT
Jesus is human
(P.S.: Where was the Holy Spirit during this???)


Jesus understood he was God
BUT
Jesus had human intellectual limitations


#ComeOnMan

None of it makes any sense. I knew that when I was ten years old.

Quote: Mosca

None of it makes any sense. I knew that when I was ten years old.

I don't think it makes any sense
to Xtians either. But 95% of
them were taught it at an early
age so they believe it's true
even if it doesn't make sense.

I know that if you try and reason
it out with the average everyday
church goer, they get frustrated
and angry with you very quickly
and they cut the conversation
short. It's like you have a really
good job and somebody is trying
to tell you your boss is a crook.
You like your job so you tune the
guy out and pay no attention.

Most Xtians don't want to see
how the sausage is made in their
religion. They just want it to be
true that Jesus died for their
sins and they are all set. They
don't want to have it taken away
from them with logic and reason.