Simple question?

Again outside of the theological question about how much Jesus did or did not know I wonder if just because you know things are going to be okay if that somehow invalidates the sacrifice. What about when the sacrifice is to help others and not yourself, is that still a sacrifice. Caring for someone even though you know you are going to be okay seems like a beautiful sacrifice to me.

I do think that Jesus in His humanity experienced the real feeling of abandonment and unknown of death. Read again the Gospel accounts of the Crucifixion to see what I am talking about.

Quote: Nareed

You can't. I mean, you can't pull a Flynn and get inside the computer. But you could devise a SIM that looks like you and has a similar personality, so to some extent he is you, and he's also at least metaphorically your son.

You'll have to settle for being the SIM "God."

I was just using the SIM game as an example to look at how I perceive the whole situation. No doubt there could be an actual SIMS "Christianity" game, complete with all the trappings if the game makers wanted to design one. SIM heaven, SIM hell. SIM televangelist. SIM Pope. SIM Crusaders SIM Jesus and Mary, etc., You get the idea.

Quote: FrGamble

I do think that Jesus in His humanity experienced the real feeling of abandonment and unknown of death. Read again the Gospel accounts of the Crucifixion to see what I am talking about.

This is all sturm and drang, isn't it. Your argument
has come down to 'go and read scripture'?
Really? You plainly see there was no real sacrifice
involved at all, don't you. God nor Jesus sacrificed
anything real, anything significant. It's a poorly
thought out myth that falls apart under even the
slightest scrutiny. It totally depends on the emotion
of god giving up his son, that's it's appeal. Throw
reason and logic out the window.

Why did god intercede in the conception of Mary to allow her to be without original sin so she could give birth to Jesus without original sin?

Why not combine the virginal conception of jesus by Mary and the immaculate conception (this time in the conception of jesus) into one step?

Why didn't he skip Mary entirely and just create jesus like he did Adam?

Quote: FrGamble

This is a good question, why is YHWH so different?

He isn't. He's a typical deity of the last millennium BCE. The only difference is the Hebrews didn't depict him in paint or sculpture. This spared them the humiliation of conquerors carting their god away after a war.

Here's a better question for you:

How come Jehovah required a second messiah in the form of Jesus?

Quote: FrGamble

Have you heard the story of the man whose only horse ran away

Have you heard the story of the rabbi who had a story to match any situation? Someone once asked him how he was always on target. The rabbi replied:

I once visited a shtetl where many houses and buildings had small circles drawn on their facades, and within these circles was a bullet hole. I searched for whoever was responsible for such a feat of marksmanship, and I found a man who told me "I just shoot a bullet at the facade and draw a circle around the hole."

Quote:

but I think if you are honest you cannot say for certain that a man who kicks your dog may not later repent from that action and start a clinic for injured dogs or that you would be so moved by that tragic even that you would not start speaking out forcefully against animal cruelty and save thousands of dogs from being abused.

I can certainly tall you none of that would make up for a single second of pain intentionally inflicted on my dog.

Possibly the more I read FrGamble's explanation the odder Christianity seems.

People have been explaining what the Bible means since all those books are written. I don't see any less a problem with that than any other highly interpretive literature.

If I ever start a religion. No donations will be asked for. No butt kissing any deities or anyone else. Good works for humanity will be acceptable by themselves. I certainly adopt a few common premises like don't murder, don't steal, try to be nice to people mostly. If someone wants to know something, answer their questions. No proselytizing! That's the first good work.

Actually, that's my religious slogan and 1st commandment: "No proselytizing! That's the first good work."

hah.
http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,466069,466678

Quote: rxwine

Possibly the more I read FrGamble's explanation the odder Christianity seems.

That's because it's unexplainable. In the old
'old days' before the printing press, the vast
majority of Catholic churches didn't even have
a hand translated Bible. The priests memorized
certain NT scripture as directed by the Pope,
and they had no idea what was in the rest of
the NT. They were told just enough to do
their jobs and not a word more. The penalty
was heavy if your church wasn't supposed to
have a hand written Bible and you were caught
with one.

Quote: Evenbob

This is all sturm and drang, isn't it. Your argument
has come down to 'go and read scripture'?

You know if you are not going to read my posts why do I bother. Read the entire first part again and answer the questions about sacrifice and we can continue this conversation.

Quote:

You plainly see there was no real sacrifice
involved at all, don't you. God nor Jesus sacrificed
anything real, anything significant.

You know I have said over and over that God the creator of the heavens and the earth comes down and becomes man suffers and dies for us and you just keep saying there was no real sacrifice and nothing was sacrificed. Why do you say this? Is it just because of the Resurrection? Is it because Jesus even at His death continued to trust that even though He wanted this cup of suffering to pass Him by He still trusted that somehow things were going to be okay? I don't know why any of these things would invalidate or make a sacrifice not meaningful or real. You have to explain yourself much better if you are to make sense.

Quote: Dalex64

Why did god intercede in the conception of Mary to allow her to be without original sin so she could give birth to Jesus without original sin?

I think you answered you own question there, and correctly I might add.

Quote:

Why not combine the virginal conception of jesus by Mary and the immaculate conception (this time in the conception of jesus) into one step?

These are good theoretical and theological questions and since I, not the Church know the mind of God these are my best guesses. I would say in answer to this that Mary's immaculate conception enabled her to prepare herself for the moment in which she said Yes to the Angel Gabriel. God never forces Himself upon us. Without her Immaculate Conception I wonder if she would be open and ready to say Yes to this surprising plan of God and up for the changes this would bring in her life.

Quote:

Why didn't he skip Mary entirely and just create jesus like he did Adam?

For Jesus to fulfill the law of God He must be one like us in all things, but sin.