Simple question?

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December 1st, 2018 at 11:08:08 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 140
Posts: 22835
Quote: FrGamble
Are you saying Hitler who attacked the Church and killed priest and bishops by the carloads did not reject the faith?.


Hitler never renounced his Catholic faith.
In fact, he was thick as thieves with the
Vatican during his reign.

"Pope Pius XII helped Hitler destroy German Catholic political opposition. ... shame on the Catholic Church by failing to denounce the Final Solution. Long-buried Vatican files reveal a new and shocking indictment of World War II’s Pope Pius XII: that in pursuit of absolute power he helped Adolf Hitler destroy German Catholic political opposition, betrayed the Jews of Europe, and sealed a deeply cynical pact with a 20th-century devil."


Hitler’s Pope

https://www.vanityfair.com/style/1999/10/pope-pius-xii-199910
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
December 2nd, 2018 at 5:49:14 AM permalink
pew
Member since: Jan 8, 2013
Threads: 4
Posts: 1232
Stalin was no Catholic.
December 2nd, 2018 at 9:19:05 AM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 66
Posts: 7574
Quote: Evenbob


That is an excellent read. I can see why that book was so popular. It seemed well written, thought out, and fair. I know it is a complicated issue concerning Pius XII and there have been other books arguing the opposite. However, what is not in question is what is applicable to our discussion and that is the Catholic Church's stance against Hitler and Nazism. You can see this clearly in the article you posted. The Catholic Church's voice was killed by Hitler literally and figuratively and perhaps Pacelli's silence was helpful in allowing this to happen. Yet it is beyond clear that Hitler had long ago renounced his faith and went directly against it.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
December 2nd, 2018 at 10:39:38 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 140
Posts: 22835
Quote: pew
Stalin was no Catholic.


How did they let him into the
seminary to study for the priesthood
if he wasn't a Catholic.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
December 2nd, 2018 at 6:09:05 PM permalink
pew
Member since: Jan 8, 2013
Threads: 4
Posts: 1232
Quote: Evenbob
How did they let him into the
seminary to study for the priesthood
if he wasn't a Catholic.
He was Orthodox. The only Catholics in Eastern Europe are polish. Get your b.s. stories straight.
December 2nd, 2018 at 9:25:32 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 140
Posts: 22835
Quote: pew
He was Orthodox. The only Catholics in Eastern Europe are polish. Get your b.s. stories straight.


How's this for getting it straight:

Joseph Stalin was born into a prominent Catholic family in Gori, Georgia. His father was a priest and his mother was a devout Catholic. Stalin was educated by Capuchin priests as a boy, and would later be accepted into Tiflis Seminary, a Jesuit institution.

Despite the Jesuits expulsion in 1820, by Alexander I, many Jesuits still remained within Russian territory, and maintained control of several institutions, including Tiflis Seminary. Stalin himself substantiates this in his interview with Journalist Emil Ludwig (Cohen).

Some historians propagate the theory that Stalin departed from the seminary shortly before graduating, but this position is untenable. The more logical and credible conclusion is that Stalin graduated as a Jesuit priest,

A greatly suppressed fact is that the head of Stalin’s death camps in Siberia was none other than Cardinal Gregory Agagianian, his classmate at Tiflis. Together these sinister Roman Catholic classmates would kill tens of million of people in their death camps, far exceeding the casualties of Hitler in Germany.

“Practically every right-wing dictator of the period had been born and brought up a Catholic – notably Hitler, Franco, Petain, Mussolini, Pavelic, and Tiso (who was a Catholic priest).” – John Cornwell - Hitler's Pope (1999; p. 280)
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
December 3rd, 2018 at 6:10:46 AM permalink
pew
Member since: Jan 8, 2013
Threads: 4
Posts: 1232
Wow. His father was a priest! His mother was a nun maybe?
December 3rd, 2018 at 6:21:58 AM permalink
pew
Member since: Jan 8, 2013
Threads: 4
Posts: 1232
Apparently Joe was in a distinct minority in Georgia (The country Georgia not the U.S. state). These are the current religious affiliations according to the CIA world fact book. Orthodox (official) 83.4%, Muslim 10.7%, Armenian Apostolic 2.9%, other 1.2% (includes Catholic, Jehovah's Witness, Yazidi, Protestant, Jewish), none 0.5%, unspecified/no answer 1.2% (2014 est.).
December 3rd, 2018 at 6:58:16 AM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 66
Posts: 7574
Yeah, I don't know how Evenbob will ever come back after a post like that.

Nobody of course knows where he got that info on Stalin. I hope it wasn't his own thoughts, so embarrassing. I also hope all the information did not come from John Cornwell's book, which is the only quoted source he lists.

Seriously, it is beyond the pale and for the sake of Evenbob's reputation and so that I can take him seriously ever again he needs to apologize for poor attempt at humor by claiming Stalin's father was a priest (he was an abusive drunk shoemaker), that Tiflis Seminary was run by Jesuits (it was Russian Orthodox, like just about everything at that time), that Stalin became a Jesuit priest (come on!), Cardinal Gregory Agagianian had anything to do with Stalin (I find this particularly egregious and just pure fiction: they were at Tiflis at different times and Cardinal Agagianian studied and lived in Rome and never had anything to do with Stalin and his evils). This is not just some Vatican lies I have been brainwashed by, these are simple facts that Evenbob either ignored or lied about. I believe that we should hold our friend to a higher standard and no longer allow this type of behavior to continue. This is false news of the past being reported without evidence, without sources, and without credibility. Evenbob should apologize and correct his post before we can take him seriously again.

Finally I find it interesting that Bob and John seems to think that right-wing dictators who grew up as Catholics and then almost all of whom left the practice of the faith or rejected it completely is more significant then perhaps the abusive relationships with their parents, broken homes, and illness. I think this again shows a prejudice of thought that ignores or makes up reality to prove a fictitious point.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
December 3rd, 2018 at 10:34:01 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 140
Posts: 22835
Quote: FrGamble
I hope it wasn't his own thoughts.


LOL! It was inevitable, I told to quit
accusing me of making things up.
I'm sick of it, we're done. I'm not
wasting one more nanosecond of
my time on you. I hope you and
your secret friend are happy
together, you certainly deserve
each other.

Buh Bye BLOCKED
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.