Will God Survive Science

October 16th, 2017 at 1:59:08 PM permalink
Dalex64
Member since: Mar 8, 2014
Threads: 2
Posts: 2317
Quote: FrGamble
I'm curious where these places are because I agree that such things are a tragedy. Atheists do not have a monopoly on poor thinking, it is obvious from your examples if they are still true that religious people don't always think clearly either.


Haven't you ever watched the news? There are public school boards removing evolution from the curriculum.

But I'm not just talking about just public schools, I'm also talking about private religious schools.
private religious schools can do it without raising much of a stink - but they are doing their students and society a great disservice just the same.

anyway here are a few links

http://www.nytimes.com/1999/08/12/us/board-for-kansas-deletes-evolution-from-curriculum.html


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_and_evolution_in_public_education_in_the_United_States

Surely you've heard of the Scopes Money trial? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scopes_Trial it was in 1925 but that's still pretty 'modern' and 'recent' for a church telling a school what they shouldn't teach. a staged event, but still the law was no teaching of human evolution in a state funded school.

Betsy DeVos wants to privatize public education, making it even easier to blur the line between public and private schools, and control over the curriculum
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/01/betsy-devos-christian-schools-vouchers-charter-education-secretary/


there is a very thin line - of just a few judges who will declare such laws like in the scopes trial - as unconstitutional. If those judges weren't there, and the religious-driven governments of some of these states figured that out, there would be a lot more of those laws being passed. You shouldn't need judges to keep laws about religious interference with schools and science off of the books.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan
October 16th, 2017 at 2:07:44 PM permalink
Dalex64
Member since: Mar 8, 2014
Threads: 2
Posts: 2317
Quote: FrGamble
The wikipedia definition doesn't see to fit philosophy or theology.

That's because it isn't science.

Quote:
The etymology of the word science however does seem to fit philosophy and theology.

That's not what it means now.
This is what it means now:
Quote:
Science (from Latin scientia, meaning "knowledge")[1][2]:58 is a systematic enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the universe.

as for the etemology, right there in this definition, yes the word science is from the latin for knowledge. that isn't the definition of the word science, though, that's just what the word means in latin.
I do not accept that everything that is "knowledge" is "science" because "science" is the latin word for "knowledge"

Quote:
Do you doubt that philosophy, theology, or even art and music do not seek after, find, and express knowledge in their unique ways?

Sure, they do those things. It ain't science, though.

Quote:
Do you agree that the physical sciences have limitations on what knowledge they can seek after, find, and express?

Yes. But it is science.

To throw another word here, those non-science pursuits can develop intution in their subjects. It still isn't science.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan
October 16th, 2017 at 2:33:55 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 115
Posts: 13583
Quote: Dalex64
That's because it isn't science..


FrG and his constant attempts to
legitimize his quack superstition
filled religion. It's never going to
work, a dog turd is still a turd no
matter how much Channel #5 you
spray on it. It'll always stink.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
October 16th, 2017 at 3:03:36 PM permalink
petroglyph
Member since: Aug 3, 2014
Threads: 18
Posts: 2753
Quote: Dalex64
This really bugs me? I go along my merry way just letting all these different factions of jesus people have their way, with all the mantra's and signature clothing and rituals. As long as they don't seem to be physically hurting kids, I like to think that mostly they do more good thn harm.

But then I read stuff like this, and leaving them alone doesn't seem like an option, because as soon as you think everybody is going to live and let live, ya find out they are trying to further their agenda that because the rest of us are busy trying to support our way of life, they are sneaking around changing the rules in the darkness. They want to deny education to children in lieu of religious indoctrination.

They don't seem to care or realize how much they disturb regular folks who just don't hold their beliefs, and they have protection by the law for pulling this crap.
Everyone gets thrown from the plane to maintain altitude
October 17th, 2017 at 4:36:57 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 56
Posts: 5779
Quote: petroglyph
This really bugs me? I go along my merry way just letting all these different factions of jesus people have their way, with all the mantra's and signature clothing and rituals. As long as they don't seem to be physically hurting kids, I like to think that mostly they do more good thn harm.

But then I read stuff like this, and leaving them alone doesn't seem like an option, because as soon as you think everybody is going to live and let live, ya find out they are trying to further their agenda that because the rest of us are busy trying to support our way of life, they are sneaking around changing the rules in the darkness. They want to deny education to children in lieu of religious indoctrination.

They don't seem to care or realize how much they disturb regular folks who just don't hold their beliefs, and they have protection by the law for pulling this crap.


I hear ya and this crazy religious stuff upsets me too, especially because it paints us all in a bad light. However, multiply your concerns times 100 and you might get a sense of what I feel like seeing the secular anti-God agenda being pushed all around us from TV, movies, schools, and universities. There is even an aggressiveness against God and faith not usually found even in these very, very few school boards or communities who want just to be left alone in their ignorance and religious beliefs.

They don't seem to care or realize how much they disturb regular folks who just don't hold their beliefs, and they have protection by the law for pulling this crap.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
October 17th, 2017 at 4:40:38 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 115
Posts: 13583
Quote: FrGamble
There is even an aggressiveness against God and faith .


Oh no, your all powerful all knowing
god who created everything can't
defend himself against the pitiful
humans he created?

The fact that you would be upset over
something so silly is a sign of how even
you doubt gods existence. But why wouldn't
you, when it's obvious god doesn't exist.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
October 17th, 2017 at 5:46:17 PM permalink
petroglyph
Member since: Aug 3, 2014
Threads: 18
Posts: 2753
Quote: FrGamble
I hear ya and this crazy religious stuff upsets me too, especially because it paints us all in a bad light.
Well yes, yes it does. And as a casual observer it seems to me that say you, or few like you really wanted to achieve the best possible results to help as many as possible and spread gods word, pound for pound your best chance of success is to break away from the church and start anew without all the baggage accumulated by your church over the centuries. What point is there in continuing to defend this church when they get caught in scandal after scandal on a seemingly weekly basis? It seems that the Catholic church spends so much time just not drowning in legal and sex crimes that they have much less time carrying out their purported mission? Unless the mission really is the survival of the corporation, not Christianity?

Quote:
However, multiply your concerns times 100 and you might get a sense of what I feel like seeing the secular anti-God agenda being pushed all around us from TV, movies, schools, and universities.
Again, there it is, you are concerned with the us and not the you. I've said before, I do not envy you your position of having to defend that Church. The last couple hundred years or so, it's like they have some kind of ethical plague, if it's not sex scandals around the world, it's money scandals at the Vatican, or finding skeletons around monastery's. I think you would achieve better lifetime results branching out on your own, quit carrying that anchor with you. You might lose some clout, but could spend more of your time doing good work. On a smaller scale, that is how I felt in my first marriage carrying a deadbeat wife, it became impossible carrying my load, and hers, especially when she threw out a 40lb Danforth anchor.

Quote:
There is even an aggressiveness against God and faith not usually found even in these very, very few school boards or communities who want just to be left alone in their ignorance and religious beliefs.
Maybe that is what you see, or receive in printouts from the head office, but I don't see anyone trying to breech the walls of the Vatican, other than trying to keep their thumbs off the scale at the bank. I don't see anyone trying to shut down Brigham Young, or Christian colleges, https://www.collegechoice.net/rankings/best-christian-colleges-and-universities/? The schools may have to change their pricing some, but those that are interested, I believe the product they sell is worth a little more if they would lean more toward the science of education and a little more away from the evangelical ? Is there an effort to quash the Amish, other than selling non pastureized milk?

You have to admit, it is hard to defend Warren Jeffs.

Quote:
They don't seem to care or realize how much they disturb regular folks who just don't hold their beliefs, and they have protection by the law for pulling this crap.
I imagine that does feel like a kick in the guts every time another scandal gets publicity. It must hurt a great deal knowing you are going to be spending more hours defending something, you had nothing to do with? Days and days of your life defending the indefensible? Certainly you would rather spend your time spreading the words of the bible and doing good deeds, than trying to explain another criminal act.

I can't imagine waking up with the sun shining, in a fairly good mood thinking you are going to get something good achieved that day, and then see a dark headline and have it feel like the carpet was jerked out from under you. Thanks for keeping up the effort, but consider what I said about branching out and helping more people, with the same amount of effort. Their are a lot of people that need help, the church seems able to defend itself.
Everyone gets thrown from the plane to maintain altitude
October 17th, 2017 at 6:10:51 PM permalink
Ayecarumba
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 85
Posts: 1512
Quote: FrGamble
I hear ya and this crazy religious stuff upsets me too, especially because it paints us all in a bad light. However, multiply your concerns times 100 and you might get a sense of what I feel like seeing the secular anti-God agenda being pushed all around us from TV, movies, schools, and universities. There is even an aggressiveness against God and faith not usually found even in these very, very few school boards or communities who want just to be left alone in their ignorance and religious beliefs.

They don't seem to care or realize how much they disturb regular folks who just don't hold their beliefs, and they have protection by the law for pulling this crap.


An example is the push by many school boards to indoctrinate school children in a system that presents a spectrum of sexual identities, instead of just the traditional male / female. There's no scientific basis for this as truth, yet the left calls it, "progress" and anyone who objects is a "bigot". C'mon man, these young kids can't even write their own names in cursive.

Quote: Family Policy Institute of Washington

Beginning in Kindergarten, students will be taught about the many ways to express gender. Gender expression education will include information about the manifestations of traits that are typically associated with one gender. Crossdressing is one form of gender expression.
Third graders will be introduced to the concept of gender identity. These children will be taught that they can choose their own gender.
Fourth graders will be expected to “define sexual orientation,” which refers to whether a person identifies as heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual; they’ll also be taught about HIV prevention. Children in fourth grade will be told that they can choose their sexual orientation.
If it's a theory, call it a theory. Don't present it as fact. Despite the volume of the voices saying Jesus Christ was a figment of someone's imagination, there is more historic evidence that he lived, died, resurrected and ascended than that supporting the authenticity of the coat displayed by Ford's Theater allegedly worn by Abraham Lincoln on the night of his assassination (which no one seriously questions as authentic). Saying it loudly doesn't make it true. Indoctrinating children doesn't make it true.
October 17th, 2017 at 7:30:35 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 115
Posts: 13583
Quote: Ayecarumba
Despite the volume of the voices saying Jesus Christ was a figment of someone's imagination, there is more historic evidence that he lived, died, resurrected


Really? Name one piece of 'evidence' of resurrection outside
of the NT. There isn't one and you know it. It's an urban legend.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
October 17th, 2017 at 7:31:09 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 126
Posts: 6005
Quote: Ayecarumba
An example is the push by many school boards to indoctrinate school children in a system that presents a spectrum of sexual identities, instead of just the traditional male / female. There's no scientific basis for this as truth, yet the left calls it, "progress" and anyone who objects is a "bigot". C'mon man, these young kids can't even write their own names in cursive.


I totally agree with the left's attempt to destigmatize sexual identity choice.

Other than that, I don't adhere to any particular idea what policies are best for anyone.

I could easily disagree with that specific Family Institute of Washington, or some other policy. But where the left wants to let people decide without being accused of not fitting in is worth fighting for.
No one has ever proven I am not God.