Getting real tired of Kamala Harris already.

I’m not complaining, but a thread that started as a weird rant about Vice President Kamala Harris has turned into.... I don’t know what.

Quote: rxwine

I could be libertarian, except I don't believe in encouraging post-behavior responsibility.

For instance I see cigarette taxes as a good pre-behavior responsibility. Yeah, you have cancer and bad health, but collectively taxes help offset it.

Fair. In general, I'm a fan on taxes when it comes to virtually any non-essential that is purchased out of choice.

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Whereas, gun crime? Pro gunners talk about freedom and nothing but post-behavior responsibility. If you commit gun crime there's no guarantee you have the resources to pay for all the damage you cause. And when you don't have it, everyone else must pay.

I hear you there! Of course, you don't necessarily have to be blindly pro Second Amendment (without restrictions) in order to be a Libertarian. It's a fairly commonly held view, a, "Party-line," view even, but it appears to me that Libertarians do not expect other Libertarians to hold each individual party line view. It would be pretty anti-Libertarian to expect that.

I think I'm pretty moderate on gun control issues, but I think it should be handled by the individual states. You obviously can't get rid of all guns because of the Second, but has anyone who could be taken seriously ever even proposed such a thing? Republicans make it sound like the Democrats are going to send in the Army to break down doors and take every single gun from peoples' houses.

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People talk about their right to freedom. Would it be freedom if car rental companies had to let you rent a luxury car without knowing that you're covered up front by insurance or some other arrangement? No. And they would be stupid to do it. Getting you put in jail because you couldn't pay for something doesn't pay the bill to the rental company. So, as a solution, it's pretty poor, IMO.

Too many people want to squeeze the poor and make sure they don't get any meager ill-gotten gains, but start screaming about freedom when, for instance it should be a requirement for health insurance and not just optional that they have enough coverage for what happens to them.

Free association and property rights are a totally different thing. While the Constitution would serve to hopefully put certain principles in place for private conduct, for the most part, it just relates back to what can or cannot be done in a Governmental capacity.

I'm confused, when should health insurance be a requirement? I don't think I followed your last sentence very well.

Quote: rxwine

My original point is I’m not a libertarian, unless libertarian is one who believes risk can’t be mitigated by just an honor system. A conservative would say he is not free if he has a mandatory payment for health insurance. He wants us to think it is freedom to be on an honor system without knowing whether he could pay for himself being a quadriplegic for instance.

No guaranteed payment is not freedom, but a con job, just like it would be if a rental car agency let you give just your word that you could pay for that luxury car if you wreck it.

There are all sorts of things that you can do to combat the problem. I'll tell you what's cheaper than being a quadriplegic---a lethal injection. If doctor assisted suicide were more of an option that was easily available to whoever wants one, then that would be much cheaper.

As far as mandatory health insurance is concerned, if you really want to reduce medical costs, just get the Government completely out of insurance. No more Medicare and no more Medicaid means no more guaranteed money for pricey hospitals, doctors and pharmaceuticals.

It wouldn't be very Libertarian, but an argument can almost be made for simply abolishing the entire health insurance industry. At that point, the medical industry basically has to charge the minimum that is possible while still making a small profit.

The next thing you could do, which would be Libertarian, is no longer require that hospitals treat all comers. For one thing, you would get rid of any hospitals that are funded by the Government in any way...or get rid of the Government funding. Can't pay? Well, sorry about your luck.

The point is that there is no inherent value in trying to prolong the lives of every single person, and to attempt to do so is a very expensive and pointless endeavor. You look at all this medical care, then you go to a nursing home which has an average billed cost in the mid-200's if you're in a shared room, that's daily. That's just for the room and whatever slop they decide to feed you. You still have doctor appointments and prescriptions that need paid for.

So, you're basically taking someone who no longer has any work output and they likely cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $200,000/year on the low end. Well, this person has insurance...insurance ain't making money on this one, folks, so they have to make it up on the many, many, people who basically only have insurance in the event of a serious emergency. The younger people who are generally losing money on the proposition of being insured as opposed to just paying it in cash or on credit.

It's basically the same general concept as Social Security, the difference being that the insurance company is also raking in massive profits on top of all of it.

Hell, just look at the amounts spent on hospice care! This person is as good as dead. Game Over Imminent. Just put the old dog down and save some money, why make them have to fight for their lives every day when there's not even anything minimally worth fighting for? What? So they can live in constant agony (or a drug induced semi-catatonic state) for another month or two? This person is long past being productive.

So, the, "Need," for insurance and the ridiculous medical costs are due to the following:

1.) The Government should only have anything to do with the healthcare of its own employees/retirees. Abolish Medicare and Medicaid.

2.) The insurance industry might be better abolished.

3.) The Government should not fund any public (civilian) hospitals in any way whatsoever.

4.) Hospitals should be permitted to turn away those who can't pay.

5.) Doctor assisted suicide should be encouraged.

6.) Younger people should quit subsidizing the insurance industry when it is the older ones who are causing the majority of the massive expenses.

7.) If you are no longer productive and you can no longer pay, then you get the shot. Maybe not that, but go die at home.

Quote: Mission146

1.) ... Abolish Medicare and Medicaid.

6.) Younger people should quit subsidizing the insurance industry when it is the older ones who are causing the majority of the massive expenses.

7.) If you are no longer productive and you can no longer pay, then you get the shot. Maybe not that, but go die at home.

Wait! now *MY* Ox is getting gored!

Convince me that you won't change your tune when you add on another 30-40 years Mister! There should be a doctor handy too for that assisted suicide when you get lung cancer from all that smoking, if I can see to that after these remarks. JK

Quote: odiousgambit

Wait! now *MY* Ox is getting gored!

Convince me that you won't change your tune when you add on another 30-40 years Mister! There should be a doctor handy too for that assisted suicide when you get lung cancer from all that smoking, if I can see to that after these remarks. JK

My bullet will be faster and cheaper. I shan't be needing a doctor.

Quote: Mission146

My bullet will be faster and cheaper. I shan't be needing a doctor.

Just do it outside so you don't make a mess for someone to clean up

hmmm. Was that too cold? You started it LOL

Quote: odiousgambit

Just do it outside so you don't make a mess for someone to clean up

hmmm. Was that too cold? You started it LOL

I've actually put some thought into where it would be. I'm thinking in front of some body of water so that the current will wash away some of the really icky stuff, and no stains will be left.

Quote: odiousgambit

Just do it outside so you don't make a mess for someone to clean up

hmmm. Was that too cold? You started it LOL

I don't think that was too cold. As one that has no issue with suicide, I have thought plenty about how I will do it and who it will affect.

the main thing is not to botch it

I'm stopping here. Somehow a thread on suicide would not be what I would want to see

PS I'm not contemplating it in case you wondering. Health is the wild card though

Quote: odiousgambit

the main thing is not to botch it

I'm stopping here. Somehow a thread on suicide would not be what I would want to see

PS I'm not contemplating it in case you wondering. Health is the wild card though

That's pretty much where I am on it. With the expected fortune, it'll be some amount of time before it becomes a consideration.