Ukraine conflict

Quote: rxwine

I'm telling our complaining Canadian to go volunteer if he doesn't like what we're doing. Has nothing to do with what you said.

Same goes for wherever he lives. He doesn’t need to volunteer; he can criticize his government’s actions or even our government’s.

I don’t keep track of where people are from. I don’t care that much about it. Thanks for reminding me. I still don’t care, though.

Besides if I want to complain about other countries outside our own on this, I'd note there's a number of European countries a lot geographically closer where it makes sense for them to gang up on Russia before we step in. But I'm not doing that.

If Biden makes an aggressive step, and it gets really bad, Biden likely to get all the blowback. Congress always complains that it has the war powers. PUT everyone of those in congress on record before we go much farther. And broadcast it.

Quote: rxwine

Ukraine's looking for volunteer soldiers. Stop grousing about the USA and head over there. A slow moving target will probably save a Ukrainian life or two.

As usual you didn't really follow the context of my post but respond with personal jabs. My post was answering Gander who had a post outlining the military intervention he would like to see. My post didn't address whether military intervention was good or bad, I only commented that in my opinion Biden won't do anything to actually stop the invasion before Ukraine is destroyed.

Quote: kenarman

As usual you didn't really follow the context of my post but respond with personal jabs. My post was answering Gander who had a post outlining the military intervention he would like to see. My post didn't address whether military intervention was good or bad, I only commented that in my opinion Biden won't do anything to actually stop the invasion before Ukraine is destroyed.

Sadly that is correct and statements just now from NATO and the State Department seem to make delivering aircraft to Ukraine even further away.

I simply don't get it. We give people aircraft and weapons all over the world in much more questionable conflicts (where the "right" side is often only slightly less bad). This is cut and dry, give Ukraine the aircraft.

It's total cowardice by NATO and specifically the U.S. who seem to be the member-State pushing back on this (Poland was ready to turn some over).

Quote: Gandler

Sadly that is correct and statements just now from NATO and the State Department seem to make delivering aircraft to Ukraine even further away.

I simply don't get it. We give people aircraft and weapons all over the world in much more questionable conflicts (where the "right" side is often only slightly less bad). This is cut and dry, give Ukraine the aircraft.

It's total cowardice by NATO and specifically the U.S. who seem to be the member-State pushing back on this (Poland was ready to turn some over).

The two arguments against it I've heard from the military, Russia has missile systems to take down the Migs Ukraine would be using, and with that, it would do little to address the artillery bombardment.

Only our pilots can fly the planes they really need.

Why send token aids that won't really help?

The Ukrainian President addressed the Canadian Parliament live via internet link 1/2 hour ago. I was waiting for the screen to blow up he spent 5 minutes on air I would be surprised if the Russians can't trace it. He certainly has balls.

Quote: rxwine

The two arguments against it I've heard from the military, Russia has missile systems to take down the Migs Ukraine would be using, and with that, it would do little to address the artillery bombardment.

The Russian anti-aircraft systems can probably take down our better aircraft, too. The MiGs would be vulnerable, but they could certainly make attacks on Russian positions until they are lost, just as is the case with the aircraft the Ukrainians already have in service.

Quote: rxwine

Only our pilots can fly the planes they really need.

So? We always limit what we give allies.

Quote: rxwine

Why send token aids that won't really help?

It won't be a mere token if they help the Ukrainians stop or slow Russia's war machine.

Quote: RonC

It won't be a mere token if they help the Ukrainians stop or slow Russia's war machine.

Russia seems to be doing a decent job stopping and slowing themselves.

Quote: rxwine

The two arguments against it I've heard from the military, Russia has missile systems to take down the Migs Ukraine would be using, and with that, it would do little to address the artillery bombardment.

Only our pilots can fly the planes they really need.

Why send token aids that won't really help?

That is all true, but the model they asked for (MIG, whatever model, I forget), is one that they are experienced and trained with.

While anything can be shot out of the air (maybe with the exception of the most advanced stealth craft), they are claiming that they need it (both their President and their military), so I trust that they are asking for it for a reason (even if that reason is simply to establish that we are willing to give weapons systems).

Right now all aid is token aid, what they need most is a no fly zone and direct help, anything else is really just token aid, but when morale is the most important thing (as it is now look at Ukraine vs Russian morale) token aid matters. When a celebrity donates millions of dollars directly to the military, does it really make a difference? Probably not, but I bet it lifts spirits.

I don’t watch many of the cable news opinion shows that are on in the evening. They generally are not that interesting because many of the hosts repeat the same things over and over again. Especially Hannity.

I did watch Tucker Carson tonight and he had on Tulsi Gabbard. Both have been called lots of things based on their positions on how much to support Ukraine and the cost of it in Ukrainian lives, based on what has happen in other places where war was kept alive with outside support or sanctions were places, such as those on Iraq which cost millions of children their lives. Tucker has been accused of “treason” by a former Senator. I have heard and seen other comments in the same vein along the way.

It is interesting that there is a line we won’t go past based on President Biden’s policies and that isn’t treason, but disagreeing about where the line possibly should be is treason.

Wrong. It is just a position on the matter. Anything less than full involvement will likely not stop Russia from taking, and keeping, large pieces—or all—of Ukraine and becoming fully involved would potentially to a World War.

It is okay to have differences of opinion. That is not “treason”. It is the freedom to speak your mind. I have not heard anyone actually side with Putin on this war and calling him “smart” or a “worthy adversary” is not the same as endorsing his invasion of Russia.

We need to be able to disagree with each other without accusing someone of a crime for not thinking the same way.

On many, many issues…