Ukraine conflict

Quote: rxwine

There’s another scenario that could play out, but I hope it doesn’t. That’s if the west looking at the costs of supporting Ukraine fighting to take back territory, decide to start pressuring Ukraine to settle with Russia before they regain lost territory. We’re already well into Ukraine not being able to fund their own resistance. Much of their economic infrastructure is already heavily damaged. So, their continued fight will be more and more dependent on others.

That is where they have the advantage. Their country is already destroyed, civilians are evacuated (or in process to be), and men are at arms.

There is no more disruption that can be caused to Ukraine, there economy is for all intents and purposes already gone, they have one goal, and that is to fight. However, there is much disruption that we can inflict against Russia.

Russia wants peace now because their economy is bleeding, their losses are through the roof, their home population is discontent and suffering. Ukraine is in battle mode. Russia is in I can't believe this is still going on mode. Ukraine has the advantage, even if they lose another City, because every day that the battle goes on, the more damage is caused to Russia.

I have no problem with America subsidizing this (I mean we basically already subsidized their military before this conflict and nobody had an issue with it).

Think about it, the Russians have superior numbers, and on paper, superior equipment (if its not properly maintained or handled incompetently that is another issue, but they technically have the advantage), and yet they are 3X the casualties of Ukraine as far as soldiers. (Most Ukrainians who have died are actually civilians, the soldier to soldier ratio is heavily in favor of Ukraine several times over).

This shows that in close combat, the Ukrainian soldiers are far superior and have a huge advantage (And many of the soldiers on the front lines from Ukraine are not even "professional" soldiers, but Reservists or territorial defense, versus Russia where it is at least according to them all professional full-time soldiers). And, this is also factoring Russia is shelling into Ukraine (so a lot of their kills are indirect combat), Ukraine is not shelling into Russia. So all of these factors make their kill count that much more impressive. Russia has so many advantages, and they are still getting pummeled in direct combat to the point that it overshadows all of their other stats.

Really the only thing Russia has to be afraid of is Nuclear Weapons. But, this is stilly to be fearful. This war has demonstrated how weak their Army is, that at full force (and with an ally that shares the border on the victim country), they are still barely making progress.

So Ukraine needs to keep them draining people, so that sanctions keep increasing, which is an indirect way for Ukraine to cause damage to their civilian population and economy. You can sugar coat it, but Russia is in bad shape right now (both at home an in theatre). And, the longer that this last, the worst things will get for them, which is good for the world..... And, the more unhappy and chaotic the people at home in Russia get, also the better for the world.

Quote: ams288

The Putin apologists on the right (ie Glenn Greenwald) are now claiming he never even wanted to take Ukraine.

This war has showed Glenn Greenwald's true colors to the world.

For years people praised him as a hero..... And, those that spoke against him were quickly dismissed.... I have never understood his popularity, but luckily he has pretty much been sidelined, hopefully forever (he is dangerous on many other issues as well).

Quote: rxwine

It's not even remotely appropriate thing to do for a leader we're currently trying to cripple by sanctions, and providing arms to defend against his illegal invasion, who is probably by definition a war criminal. And has created a count of 3.5 million refugees fleeing their homeland.

…and I said that TWICE.

Quote: RonC

…and I said that TWICE.

BTW, aren't you going to admit that our pre-Urkraine Russia relationship is far different than our current one?

IN other words, you also made a bad comparison. The whole Hunter-gate request was far more appropriate than it is now.

Quote: rxwine

BTW, aren't you going to admit that our pre-Urkraine Russia relationship is far different than our current one?

IN other words, you also made a bad comparison. The whole Hunter-gate request was far more appropriate than it is now.

We are not at war.

I said it was inappropriate.

Do you want me to hire a plane and have them write it in the sky?

Quote: RonC

Do you want me to hire a plane and have them write it in the sky?

Naw, you can save your pennies for whatever candidate you're going to vote for in 2024

Quote: rxwine

Naw, you can save your pennies for whatever candidate you're going to vote for in 2024

(trump)

Quote: rxwine

Naw, you can save your pennies for whatever candidate you're going to vote for in 2024

No…I will travel with it instead!

The city of Kharkiv in the Kharkiv Oblast is the largest city in the Ukraine outside of Kiev and borders Russia.Kharkiv was the first capital of the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic, from December 1919 to January 1934. before the capital moved to Kiev. Downtown Kharkiv is 24 miles from the Russian border.

By native launguage the Oblast is divided
Ukrainian 53.8%,
Russian 44.3%,

But as you can see there are only two Russian language majority districts, the first Kharkiv (city) population 1,449,674 and one other district Chuhuyiv.

Russian troops have not yet occupied the city of Kharkiv.


There are 12 million people in the critical 5 oblasts.
4,387,702 Donetsk Oblast
2,720,342 Kharkiv Oblast
2,263,676 Luhansk Oblast
1,755,663 Zaporizhzhia Oblast
1,063,803 Kherson Oblast
12,191,186

Combined with the two regions already abosrbed by Russia it is roughly 1/3 of Ukraine.
Crimea (Autonomous Republic)
Sevastopol (Municipality)

The heavily populated Dnipropetrovsk Oblast still has a large Russian minority, and may be desired to move the borders of the divided country further towards Kiev
3,258,705 Dnipropetrovsk Oblast
1,159,634 Mykolaiv Oblast


A worst case subdivision could leave Ukraine with a population of only 13 million compared to t he 10 million population of Hungary.
2,900,920 Kyiv (Municipality)
1,731,673 Kyiv Oblast

I really do not understand the right's obsession with "Native Language", we have counties in U.S. (mostly along the Souther Border, though a few in Florida, and some in relatively random places around the continental U.S. -none in Alaska or Hawaii-) where over 50% of the population speaks Spanish as their "native language". And, this is probably (almost certainly) going to grow in the coming decades. Does this give Mexico or some other Spanish speaking nation the right to annex these counties and metro areas since they feel a stronger culture connection to them?

This is such a flawed argument..... (And, this is not even the primary reason that it is flawed, but it just gives those on the right a tangible example since this seems to be a large fear).