Original Sin?

Quote: pew

He gave one of the best explanations I've heard. Thank you!

'Any thought or action that falls
short of a perfect gods perfection?
Really? That pretty much covers
it all, any thought you have or anytime
you fart sideways, you're sinning."

Shrinks make millions treating people
who think they need to be perfect. Just
like the Church does. The smart people
don't fall for it, but the world is full
of gullible people. Y'all keep trying to
be perfect, the rest of us will settle for
guilt free non perfection.

Quote: Evenbob

Any shrink will tell you this is
a dangerous position to put
yourself in. Having unrealistic
goals leads to failure and frustration.

Maybe perfect is not the right word. Maybe better would be the constant desire to improve and be better. I'm not a perfectionist, but I do want to be better and improve myself. I would think we all would fall under that category and I think it is psychologically healthy. Do you feel like you are already perfect and you don't need to change or improve at all? What do you think a psychologist would say about that?

Quote:

Jesus died because
I yelled at my kids and worked too many
hours when they were little? For that
somebody had to die? Think about what
you're saying. Doesn't this seem just a
tad bit drastic?

It is drastic. We are talking about not just anyone dying for your sins, but God incarnate. The cost or price of these sins is death. You think of them as very small and insignificant but it might be because you think yourself small and insignificant. I see you as a child of God, made in the image and likeness of God who is unique and awesome and called to greatness. These sins no matter how small or big create that gap between who you are and who you were made to be. Jesus Christ closes that gap, forgives your sins, and allows you to be the great man you were made to be.

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Have you noticed you can no longer
send me PM's?

I haven't noticed because if you remember you are the one who is usually PMing me. I can't imagine any message of mine being degrading. I'm sorry if you felt that way. Maybe a PM about it rather than blocking me would have been effective. I also can't imagine me attacking you in any way as badly as you attack me, however if I did I am sorry but I learned it from watching you.

Quote: Evenbob

Shrinks make millions treating people
who think they need to be perfect. Just
like the Church does. The smart people
don't fall for it, but the world is full
of gullible people. Y'all keep trying to
be perfect, the rest of us will settle for
guilt free non perfection.

I take solace in the fact that no person is perfect. That way no man can boast.

Quote: FrGamble

I'm not a perfectionist, but I do want to be better and improve myself.

So somebody had to die for this?
You're not making the point you
think you are. This sounds like
what lazy and spoiled people
would want, somebody to die
so they could feel better about
themselves. Not very productive..

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The cost or price of these sins is death.

So if you yell at your kids and work
long hours and are away from them,
god kills you for this? Are you sure?
Again, this is why Xtions avoid details,
they make no sense.

Quote:

I haven't noticed

Yet you mentioned it a few days
after I did it. You say you never
attack me? Is it OK with you if
I post some of your PM's here to
show how wrong you are?

Quote: Evenbob

So somebody had to die for this?

To eliminate the separation our sins put between ourselves and who God made us to be, yes. But not anyone, in fact no one other than God Himself can heal us from our sins because no one other than God is truly perfect. God who lives perfectly dies for our sins, He pays the penalty we deserve so that we can be freed from crippling guilt and shame and strive to be the men and women we are called and meant to be.

Quote:

So if you yell at your kids and work
long hours and are away from them,
god kills you for this?

God doesn't kill you for doing this or the multitude of other things you and I have done wrong in our lives. These things create the abyss of death, the separation between who we are meant to be and who we are. God bridges the abyss of death through Jesus Christ and allows us be free from these things that kill us. Remember sin kills, God saves.

Quote:

You say you never
attack me? Is it OK with you if
I post some of your PM's here to
show how wrong you are?

Sure, go ahead. I only ask that you include the date and time I sent it to you so I can give context if needed.

Quote: FrGamble

in fact no one other than God Himself can heal us from our sins

So yelling at my kids and working late and
depriving them of my presence, that can
only be 'healed' by god? Baloney, what utter
poppycock. You're like the patent medicine
salesman in 1896 who diagnosed a fake
disease in people and then magically had
the cure for sale. That's exactly what your
Church does, makes people feel guilt where
there should be none, and then gives them
a phony baloney way out. Shame on you..
Talk about asking forgiveness, that transgression
against society is at the top of the list.

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Remember sin kills, God saves.

Or so the catchy slogan says. All patent
medicine fake cures need a slogan..

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Sure, go ahead. I only ask that you include the date and time I sent it to you so I can give context if needed.

So you admit you attack me on a regular
basis, you just want to be able to continue
the attacks by trying to justify them here?
Nice try.

"Sure, your honor, I called my wife names
and verbally abused her. But that's only
because she's a nasty stupid trashy wench,
what choice did I have."

Yeah, I'm going to give you that opportunity.
Not..

Quote: pew

I take solace in the fact that no person is perfect.

The word 'perfect' has no meaning,
it's an opinion. A perfectly mowed
lawn, a perfectly sharpened knife,
a perfectly written poem, these are
all in the eyes of the beholder. You've
been tricked into thinking there's a
perfect god somewhere. There isn't,
perfection does not exist.

Quote: Evenbob

So yelling at my kids and working late and
depriving them of my presence, that can
only be 'healed' by god?

Only a time machine can heal the actual sin. It is precisely the guilt or shame we feel that holds us back from improving and striving to be better that God heals us from. Remembering you are a good husband and father even if you make mistakes is what God offers you. The Church doesn't make anyone feel guilty, sin does that. Sin kills, sin causes guilt, God loves, God forgives, and God saves. The Church offers a way to be freed from the guilt of sin through the unconditional love of Jesus Christ.

Why do you call this a transgression or something to be ashamed about? I don't understand you, but at least you seem to grasp the notion of sin as long as it is not directed at you.

Quote:

So you admit you attack me on a regular
basis,

No, not at all! In fact I am flabbergasted that you who attack me so publicly and privately would dare to say so! I said you can go ahead and publish PMs you felt attacked by and give me a chance to either explain or apologize. I am pretty sure you won't find anything though.

Quote: FrGamble

Only a time machine can heal the actual sin.

You haven't demonstrated how yelling
at your kids break any divine laws, which
is the definition of sin. That is also your
own Church's definition.

"sin is the act of transgression against divine law."

Which divine law does yelling at your kids
break. Not for a nano second do I believe
Jesus died for these silly nonsense reasons.
He died in the myth for original sin, a concept
he never spoke about and didn't even exist
till long after he died. You avoid this subject
assiduously, with great care. You know it's
a minefield and shoots the whole religion
out of the sky like a clay pigeon.

Quote:

at least you seem to grasp the notion of sin

Not quite. The more you try and explain it,
the more confusing it gets. I again say, you
really don't know what sin is and what it
isn't, because it's like nailing Jello to the wall.
It's meant to be that way, they don't want
people to understand it. They only want them
to feel the vague guilt you are trying to instill.

Quote: Evenbob

The word 'perfect' has no meaning,
it's an opinion. A perfectly mowed
lawn, a perfectly sharpened knife,
a perfectly written poem, these are
all in the eyes of the beholder. You've
been tricked into thinking there's a
perfect god somewhere. There isn't,
perfection does not exist.

You are correct again. You keep answering your own questions perfectly, almost.