Pope Francis

Quote: FrGamble

Bob, you are calling the remembrances of a 93 year old man

So why isn't the Vatican stating unequivocally
that the pope never said it? They're dancing
around it, just like you are. If he didn't say
it, have him come out and make a public
statement about hell.

Never gonna happen because he DID say it.

Quote: Evenbob

So why isn't the Vatican stating unequivocally
that the pope never said it? They're dancing
around it, just like you are. If he didn't say
it, have him come out and make a public
statement about hell.

Never gonna happen because he DID say it.

I will wager anything at all that he did not say it. You name the amount of money or whatever you would like me to do and I will do it. However, when it is shown that the Pope did not say that there is no he'll then you have to read just one short book of my choosing. Anything you want vs. Reading a book all on the line if Pope Francis said there is no hell. Is it a bet?

Quote: FrGamble

I will wager anything at all that he did not say it.

Good grief. You're willing to believe
whole heartedly the gospel stories
that were told hundreds of times
before being written down, yet you
dismiss out of hand the word of
somebody who heard it first hand,
right from the horses mouth. You
are a very fickle person.

If he never said it, the Vatican will
deny it. Till then, he said it.

Look, I am very glad you trust so much in oral tradition and the personal testimony of others. I agree with you that it is a powerful way to communicate truth. I have no problem with that. What you need to take into consideration is the content of the message. As you know there were some made up very late Gospels that had Jesus killing little kids and other strange stuff and they were not taken as true because of their content. Look at the content and you can see it just doesn't fit.

Quote: FrGamble

What you need to take into consideration is the content of the message.

The content of the Vatican's message
is, yeah, he said it, he said there is no
hell, just not in the exact words that
were reported.

You can't read it any other way.

What is continuing to happen here is people on all sides are believing only what they want to believe, disbelieving what they want to disbelieve, based on what they WANT the truth to be.

Quote: FrGamble

Look, I am very glad you trust so much in oral tradition and the personal testimony of others. I agree with you that it is a powerful way to communicate truth. I have no problem with that. What you need to take into consideration is the content of the message. As you know there were some made up very late Gospels that had Jesus killing little kids and other strange stuff and they were not taken as true because of their content. Look at the content and you can see it just doesn't fit.

Yeah, this sums up what I said nicely. Oral tradition is just fine, as long as it says what you want it to say.

Quote: Dalex64

What is continuing to happen here is people on all sides are believing only what they want to believe, disbelieving what they want to disbelieve, based on what they WANT the truth to be.

Good summary. This is why we need objective ways to arrive at certain truths so that our beliefs have checks and balances to them. Logic, science, history, all have a part to play.

If over 2000 years of consistent teaching about something is clear through history than perhaps the rememberences of one 93 year old atheist might not be enough to base your belief on.

Quote: FrGamble

If over 2000 years of consistent teaching about something is clear through history.

You really need to read more than just
the titles of Bart Ehrman's books. You
would learn so many really important
facts about your religion.

Quote: Dalex64

What is continuing to happen here is people on all sides are believing only what they want to believe, disbelieving what they want to disbelieve, based on what they WANT the truth to be.

Sounds like the Pope and Trump elicit the same response in their supporters.