Pope Francis

Quote: FrGamble

Good summary. This is why we need objective ways to arrive at certain truths so that our beliefs have checks and balances to them. Logic, science, history, all have a part to play.

If over 2000 years of consistent teaching about something is clear through history than perhaps the rememberences of one 93 year old atheist might not be enough to base your belief on.

So are you saying this 93 year old atheist is lying, or is incapable of remembering a recent conversation?

We aren't trying to establish a belief system here, or "objective truths" just determine if the pope did or did not say something, regardless of the fact that it wasn't an official interview and no notes were taken.

Look at the words coming out of the Vatican. The strongest thing they have said is that it can't be considered a word for word quote of what the pope said.

Like Bob said, they are not denying that the pope expressed a sentament indicating that there is no hell. Exact quote or not, the meaning of his words are there.

Let's not be absurd, I'm not saying this established reporter is lying or incapable of remembering a conversation. All I'm saying is that we remember his practice and history of not giving quotes but his interpretation of what someone said. The Pope did not say there is no hell, this is 1000% certain. However, he obviously said something that sounded like it to this reporter. I'm just a little flabbergasted that you think the Vatican actually has to come out and explicitly say the Pope did not change a 2000 year old teaching based on the Scriptures and the words of Jesus Christ Himself in a 20 minute interview today. Come on?!?

I think that when they do choose to make a statement, which they did, they should be absolutely clear in their meaning.

Instead they said this:

Quote:

“What is reported by the author in today’s article is the result of his reconstruction, in which the literal words pronounced by the Pope are not quoted,” the Vatican said. “No quotation of the aforementioned article must therefore be considered as a faithful transcription of the words of the Holy Father.”

Speaking of absurd, you aren't saying the reporter is lying, you aren't saying he is incapable of remembering a conversation, but you are 1000% certain that the pope did not say there is no hell.

Well, it isn't just a couple of us here discussing what was or was not said, what was or was not denied. The stories are flying all around the world and the level of uncertainty over what the pope meant if he said it, and what the Vatican meant by their statement, is high.

If I was a 93 year old atheist reporter I would surely want to believe there is no he'll and that the Pope told me so.

Quote: FrGamble

The Pope did not say there is no hell,

Then why doesn't the Vatican say so.
This is a big deal, it's in the headlines
for the last 3 days. Just have the pope
give a short statement that he was
misquoted, easy peasy. They aren't
even denying he said it, let alone having
him make a statement.

He obviously did say it because he knows
it's true, and he's not going to walk it back.

Quote: Evenbob

He obviously did say it because he knows
it's true, and he's not going to walk it back.

Why wouldn't he? Must protect bottom line, that's the rules. He's not above being Kennedy'd either.

Quote: petroglyph

Why wouldn't he?

Because the pope is a man of
principle, he's not going to say
what he doesn't believe.

OMG! This thread is getting really ridiculous. First of all none of the major websites have any new stories about the Pope denying hell. You really have to be trying very hard to believe that the Pope has become heretical with a brief interview with an Italian newspaper. Pointing out that the Vatican didn't explicitly deny he said there was no hell is like believing NASA thinks the Earth is flat because their latest announcement didn't explicitly state the Earth is round. Do you have any idea of what it would take or mean if the Pope said there was no hell? This in the words of Evenbob is a nothing burger and always has been.

Quote: FrGamble

First of all none of the major websites have any new stories about the Pope denying hell. .

They all had it 3 days ago. Drudge had it
front and center till about an hour ago.
This is a huge story and it's not going
away, no matter how you try and pooh pooh
it. Jesus died for nothing, according to
the pope..

Quote: Evenbob

Because the pope is a man of
principle, he's not going to say
what he doesn't believe.

Yet he hasn't come out with a confirmation or correction.