Pope Francis

Quote: Dalex64

http://www.womenpriests.org/traditio/inferior.asp

Note: "woman is not created in the image of God"

You basically label any uncomfortable policy which I point out was practice and policy at the time, as "Catholic in name only"

You agree that popes can be in error. Maybe Peter was in error when he declared that only a man can personify Jesus. I don't recall any transubstantiation in the Bible where Jesus said "with this blessing your flesh becomes my flesh, your blood becomes my blood" or any reason such a blessing, if it existed, could only be performed on men.

I am amazed that you believe the Church ever taught that woman is not created in the image of God. Your very biased source is doing you wrong and you should probably look at some other sources as well. In fact I think your link claiming such erroneous teachings influenced by their biased views admits the decree it came from is not official Church teaching and never was. Disappointing and surprising that you would believe it.

I do believe that Popes can be in error and certainly theologians and philosophers can. When you take the culture of the time especially it only makes the fact that the Church never did officially teach some of the things the theologians and philosophers of the ancient world and that time period were promoting an astounding fact.

[edit: I meant to say also that you have to be careful in presenting the argument as "only a man can personify Jesus". That is close to a straw man argument. While many people might wrongly characterize the priest as personifying Jesus, that is not the case. Anyone can and should personify Jesus. It is making Jesus Sacramentaly present that is at issue.

Quote: Dalex64

I have not, but he is getting the "Catholic in name only" treatment among some of my conservative Catholic friends.

I could see how the conservatives wouldn't be in love with him. I admire the fact that any divisions the Catholic church seems to keep rather quiet. The protestant faith has a chasm the size of the Grand Canyon between liberals and conservatives.

Quote: FrGamble

it seems the only evidence you use to support your claim that the Church sees women as inferior is that they can't be priests..

In slavery terms, your argument is, "Look, we've given them everything except the ability make their own decisions, what more can you ask of us?"


Pffft.

Quote: rxwine

In slavery terms, your argument is, "Look, we've given them everything except the ability make their own decisions, what more can you ask of us?"


Pffft.

Not only is this analogy offensive it is ludicrous.

Pffft.

Quote: FrGamble

Not only is this analogy offensive it is ludicrous.

You should consider your position ludicrous and offensive.

Is the following true or false: "Jesus gave no explicit teaching on the role of women in the church. In fact, he left no teaching at all concerning women as a class of people…. He treated every woman he met as a person in her own right."

Your Pope made something up because Jesus didn't do something, not because he did.

Jesus did do something very obvious, He chose only men as Apostles. He also taught and showed that men and women are equal.

Quote: FrGamble

Jesus did do something very obvious, He chose only men as Apostles. He also taught and showed that men and women are equal.

The apostles demonstrated many times they were wrong and that they didn't understand what Jesus was doing and why he did it.

When a bleeding woman touched his robe they tried to keep him from knowing that he had been defiled. Instead he lifted her up.


Consider how a single woman running around trying to be an apostle would be treated at that time? What are the chances she wouldn't be treated as a loose women, enslaved or forced to marry?

You are forgetting two things. One, the Apostles and the early Church looked at Mary to be the greatest human being and most perfect disciple. Why not make her not only a priest, Pope, or the greatest Apostle? The second thing to remember is that Jesus established the Church and gave it not only authority but the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Quote: FrGamble

The second thing to remember is that Jesus established the Church and gave it not only authority but the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

So why not appoint a physical being female Mary above your Pope. Why? The original apostles are gone, but you have represented them with people. She was a human also, not god.

Second, ask your Pope about something else Jesus never did. He never built any churches much less elaborate expensive ornate ones.

Quote:

Jesus teaches Kingdom, not building. The Gospel biographies are filled with evocative, vivid parables, all about the Kingdom of God. They were Jesus’ central teaching. But this kingdom He speaks about is not a where but a when.

It is the state of the world when people acknowledge God; when God is honored and worshipped and respected—the Kingdom is present.
Throughout the Gospels, you can find Jesus teaching on the characteristics of His Kingdom people as they reflect the character of God in the world. The Church was never about brick and mortar. It was always greater than that. It was about a way of being in the world.

Jesus tells Peter he is the rock of the Church. He affirms His disciple Peter’s faith and character, and says that he will be the foundation of the Kingdom community as it grows.

Quote: FrGamble

gave it not only authority but the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

And brings us back to this HS
guiding the Church into the
Crusades, forcing Jews to convert,
Inquistions, burning witches, etc.

You cannot escape your own words
no matter how you wriggle and writhe.
The Church has always been run by
the greed and egos of ambitious men,
there is no so called holy spirit to be
found in any of it.