government shutdown

Quote: SOOPOO

Aren’t you a lawyer? You know the LAW says they are required to work even during a government shutdown’? I’m sure there are defined rules as to calling in sick. Usually a low number of days is on the honor system. And once you exceed that number usually requires a ‘doctor’s note’.

Once the shutdown ends (seems like soon) this problem goes away.

You can become an ATC with an Associates Degree! And median salary is around $150k. Seems hard to believe there aren’t enough interested in the gig to have enough applicants.

ATC is a tough gig with a high washout rate. We are probably nearing a super cycle from when almost all of them quit under Reagan

Quote: SOOPOO

Aren’t you a lawyer? You know the LAW says they are required to work even during a government shutdown’? I’m sure there are defined rules as to calling in sick. Usually a low number of days is on the honor system. And once you exceed that number usually requires a ‘doctor’s note’.

Once the shutdown ends (seems like soon) this problem goes away.

You can become an ATC with an Associates Degree! And median salary is around $150k. Seems hard to believe there aren’t enough interested in the gig to have enough applicants.

You don't even need an associates degree you just need a HS or GED. But, the medical screening is super strict, if you have the slightest issue you are out. And, it's a very rough job mentally and timewise, so they burn out fast.

The problem may not go away, even before the shutdown under Trump there was a shortage. Under Biden there was too, but even more extreme under Trump.

So, yes it's worse now, but it has been a problem for over a decade, that has been getting worse and worse.

Frankly Reagan and Trump have been the ones most to blame for this issue. (Reagan fired 100% of the workforce and hired a brand new batch nationwide, this meant that they all retired within a few years of each other because the age of a new hire is so limited.)

Quote: Gandler

You don't even need an associates degree you just need a HS or GED. But, the medical screening is super strict, if you have the slightest issue you are out. And, it's a very rough job mentally and timewise, so they burn out fast.

The problem may not go away, even before the shutdown under Trump there was a shortage. Under Biden there was too, but even more extreme under Trump.

So, yes it's worse now, but it has been a problem for over a decade, that has been getting worse and worse.

Frankly Reagan and Trump have been the ones most to blame for this issue. (Reagan fired 100% of the workforce and hired a brand new batch nationwide, this meant that they all retired within a few years of each other because the age of a new hire is so limited.)

Close. They all quit under Reagan. No show no call voluntary resignation.

Quote: AZDuffman

Close. They all quit under Reagan. No show no call voluntary resignation.

That is not true, Reagan fired all of them and barred them from life from being an ATC. You don't get banned for life from a voluntary resignation.

Quote: AZDuffman

Close. They all quit under Reagan. No show no call voluntary resignation.

Ummmm. NO! You won’t find a single credible reference saying they resigned. They did participate in an illegal work stoppage, and were rightly fired by Reagan. Their lifetime ban was later reversed by Clinton.

They have a union, which one must assume will protect them from the ongoing heavy-handed bullying of the Trump administration.

But my question is valid: How do you know some aren't REALLY too sick to work?

Should Jack, an ATC who is puking / pooping his guts out from food poisoning be required to work, and be penalized / fired for not showing up?

"Uh, flight 272, hold on runway 3 while I shit my pants..."

Quote: Gandler

That is not true, Reagan fired all of them and barred them from life from being an ATC. You don't get banned for life from a voluntary resignation.

No, he said for them to come back to work or they have resigned their jobs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7GJV9x07Qw. Jump to about 1:20. "If they do not report they have forfeited their jobs."

And yes, they got barred from government jobs for breaking federal law. A good thing.

Quote: Gandler

The problem may not go away, even before the shutdown under Trump there was a shortage. Under Biden there was too, but even more extreme under Trump.

Obama caused the current ATC shortage.

It takes two to four years to train an ATC, after they complete the FAA training program

In 2014, there were thousands of qualified applicants in the pipeline with an FAA accredited degree who already passed the AT-SAT, when Obama scrapped the list and changed the requirements to allow off the streets hires with no previous training to apply for the job.

https://manhattan.institute/article/affirmative-action-lands-in-the-air-traffic-control-tower

The class action suit, Brigida vs FAA is still working its way through the courts.

https://mslegal.org/cases/brigida-v-faa/

Quote: AZDuffman

No, he said for them to come back to work or they have resigned their jobs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7GJV9x07Qw. Jump to about 1:20. "If they do not report they have forfeited their jobs."

And yes, they got barred from government jobs for breaking federal law. A good thing.

If you don't do your job you've resigned. Gather your things and get out, you "resigner" you. LOL.

Quote: Tanko

Obama caused the current ATC shortage.

It takes two to four years to train an ATC, after they complete the FAA training program

In 2014, there were thousands of qualified applicants in the pipeline with an FAA accredited degree who already passed the AT-SAT, when Obama scrapped the list and changed the requirements to allow off the streets hires with no previous training to apply for the job.

https://manhattan.institute/article/affirmative-action-lands-in-the-air-traffic-control-tower

The class action suit, Brigida vs FAA is still working its way through the courts.

https://mslegal.org/cases/brigida-v-faa/

They already addressed that years ago --"Congress stepping in with the 2016 FAA Extension, Safety, and Security Act, which allowed CTI graduates another shot at applying."

https://ghazi.org.uk/brigida-v-u-s-department-of-transportation-a-case-that-shaped-federal-hiring-practices/