Was Jesus God?

Quote: Evenbob

Quote: FrGamble

The Greek is kecharitomene and it means "Graced one", "favored one" or "full of grace".

"chaire kecharitomene" means: “Hail, who has been perfectly and completely graced by God.”

I asked my Baptist brother in law minister
why his church hasn't taken this one phrase
from the NT and exalted Mary to the
same lofty position that the Catholic's
have. His email answer: 'LOL!'

It's not just this phrase even though it is very clear. There is also the Book of Revelation where we find another heavenly image of Mary. Then you also have the constant tradition of the Church from the Apostles until the reformation who believed in the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption. The historical evidence of a constant reverence for the mother of God and some of our earliest prayers invoke her intercession.

Quote: Dalex64

He supposedly created the entire universe. It seems ludicrous to me to suggest that he needed a mother in order to enter our world.

Yes He could have chosen to enter into our world as a triumphant king riding from the sky in a flaming chariot. Yet, God chose to enter our world in the most normal and human of ways. He chose to enter helpless and with the necessary help of a mother. I believe this teaches us a lot about why God came. God did not come to be served, but to serve. He came to be with us as a brother and a friend and not some distant supreme ruler or superman.

Quote: Nareed

Why would an omnipotent being require anything?

An omnipotent being does not require anything, which is why His freely chosen act to become dependent, weak, and helpless in the arms of Mary is so mind boggling, and in my mind so beautiful.

Quote: FrGamble

An omnipotent being does not require anything, which is why His freely chosen act to become dependent, weak, and helpless in the arms of Mary is so mind boggling, and in my mind so beautiful.

So rape, incest and adultery are ok if they result in the deity slumming with mere mortals?

How many of his own commandments does your deity actually break?

Quote: Nareed

So rape, incest and adultery are ok if they result in the deity slumming with mere mortals?

What are you talking about?!?

Quote: FrGamble

What are you talking about?!?

Well, you deity took another man's wife, which is adultery. He did it with his mother, which makes it incest. And he made it in such a way that no sane person could have possibly refused him, which makes it rape.

Quote: FrGamble

It's not just this phrase even though it is very clear.

Clear as mud.



"Basically, there is no biblical support for Mary's Immaculate Conception, her eternal virginity, her eternal sinlessness or any reason why she should be venerated above anyone else. She is to be honored, but not more than Peter, Paul, Joseph or Billy Graham. All of these doctrines about Mary are purely Catholic teachings and not biblical teachings. Thus, as "born again" Christians who look to the Bible alone for authority, there is no reason to accept those doctrines."

Just another Catholic fairy tale..

Quote: FrGamble

An omnipotent being does not require anything, which is why His freely chosen act to become dependent, weak, and helpless in the arms of Mary is so mind boggling

Your mind is easily boggled. It was just
the continuation of the myth, which
everybody at the time knew. Myth
after myth from Egypt and Greece
about special people being born of
a virgin. Surely they covered this in
seminary, you can't really believe
this started with the Jesus myth.

Quote: Evenbob

Clear as mud.



"Basically, there is no biblical support for Mary's Immaculate Conception, her eternal virginity, her eternal sinlessness or any reason why she should be venerated above anyone else. She is to be honored, but not more than Peter, Paul, Joseph or Billy Graham. All of these doctrines about Mary are purely Catholic teachings and not biblical teachings. Thus, as "born again" Christians who look to the Bible alone for authority, there is no reason to accept those doctrines."

Just another Catholic fairy tale..

Come on, I love Billy Graham as much as the next guy, but at the same level as Peter, Paul or Joseph? That is just crazy talk. Why don't you ask Jesus who should be venerated above anyone else? No matter what we do we could never love or venerate His mother as much as the Lord Himself did. It is just another clear example of people making up what they want to believe despite what the Bible and Tradition clearly teach. Another example would be using the Bible alone for authority. Where in the Bible does it say that the Bible alone should be the authority. I can show you many places where it says the opposite and of course the very history of the Bible is one of the Church's authority, but I digress.

Quote: Evenbob

Your mind is easily boggled. It was just
the continuation of the myth, which
everybody at the time knew. Myth
after myth from Egypt and Greece
about special people being born of
a virgin. Surely they covered this in
seminary, you can't really believe
this started with the Jesus myth.

Of course we covered this. We also covered the many and huge differences between the pre-existing myths before Christ. They paint a very incomplete and many times very different picture in what we see in Christ. It is almost as if the ancients were getting the incomplete picture yet there were element of truths in what they longed for, which would make perfect sense. You also have to remember that often these myths were very separate and isolated to their specific culture. It seems odd that a group of uneducated Jewish fisherman and zealots would know of or understand these things.