Hey FrGamble!

Quote: Evenbob

Because it makes no sense that
we're ruled by and surrounded
by the laws of nature, and with a
wave of your hand you get rid
of these laws when it comes to
your god.

Again you are talking about my God, meaning Jesus Christ. I disagree with you and think that it makes perfect sense that the one who created all things and wrote the laws of nature can break them without getting rid of them or destroying the laws. But this is neither here nor there and this isn't about me or my beliefs.

This is real simple, where did these unbreakable laws of nature come from? Is one of these laws that things in motion have had a force acted upon them? Is one of these laws that things that begin to exist have a cause? Have you heard of the laws of thermodynamics? Your idea of material things existing eternally without a cause breaks every single law there is! Yes Jesus once walked on water and it freaks you out - yet you literally trample on almost every law of science and logic just to pretend there is not some type of reality we can best describe as God. You are unbelievable!

Quote: FrGamble

Which is why 100% of them would never deny some cause they don't understand is the first cause of the universe and all that exists..

There are good theories that
point to big bangs happening
all the time in the infinite
universe. Why is ours special.
It's not. It's just something that
happens naturally, no gods
needed.

Quote: Evenbob

There are good theories that
point to big bangs happening
all the time in the infinite
universe. Why is ours special.
It's not. It's just something that
happens naturally, no gods
needed.

What causes these "Big Bangs" to happen? When was the first one? Where are the others big bangs happening? Where did the matter and energy in these big bangs come from, what is its cause? Why do you believe these theories, what evidence do you have that they might be right?

Quote: FrGamble

it makes perfect sense that the one who created all things and wrote the laws of nature can break them

If that were true, maybe. But
it's not true, it's a story you
were told and you believed
it.

Quote:

Your idea of material things existing eternally without a cause breaks every single law there is!

Existing-in-one-form-or-another.
The only law it breaks is the fake
laws your religion makes up. And
the theory of the universe existing
forever certainly isn't my idea, it's
a credible one put out there by many
quantum physicists.

"The study isn’t suggesting there was no Big Bang. It’s suggesting that the Big Bang did not start with a singularity – a point in space-time when matter is infinitely dense, as at the center of a black hole. By eliminating the singularity, the model predicts that the universe had no beginning. It existed forever as a kind of quantum potential before ‘collapsing’ into the hot dense state we call the Big Bang."

No god reqired.

Quote: FrGamble

What causes these "Big Bangs" to happen? When was the first one? Where are the others big bangs happening? Where did the matter and energy in these big bangs come from, what is its cause? Why do you believe these theories, what evidence do you have that they might be right?

http://diversitytomorrow.com/thread/1454/126/#post143734

"The study isn’t suggesting there was no Big Bang. It’s suggesting that the Big Bang did not start with a singularity – a point in space-time when matter is infinitely dense, as at the center of a black hole. By eliminating the singularity, the model predicts that the universe had no beginning. It existed forever as a kind of quantum potential before ‘collapsing’ into the hot dense state we call the Big Bang."

That is the kind of answer that makes a lot more logical and scientific sense to me than a god. It even allows for multiple expansions and crunches, and multiple bangs separated in a much larger void, that may or may not run into each other.

Quote: Dalex64

That is the kind of answer that makes a lot more logical and scientific sense to me than a god. It even allows for multiple expansions and crunches, and multiple bangs separated in a much larger void, that may or may not run into each other.

The universe is infinite and there's
a good chance spontaneous big
bangs happen all the time. It means
we are also infinite and have been
here forever in one form or another.
My father in law died this afternoon,
it's why I don't wonder where he is
now. I instinctively know it's all part
of the process.

Stifle the condolences, he wasn't my
father. I didn't even like him. He was 95,
only the good die young.

Quote: Evenbob

If that were true, maybe. But
it's not true, it's a story you
were told and you believed
it.



Existing-in-one-form-or-another.
The only law it breaks is the fake
laws your religion makes up. And
the theory of the universe existing
forever certainly isn't my idea, it's
a credible one put out there by many
quantum physicists.

"The study isn’t suggesting there was no Big Bang. It’s suggesting that the Big Bang did not start with a singularity – a point in space-time when matter is infinitely dense, as at the center of a black hole. By eliminating the singularity, the model predicts that the universe had no beginning. It existed forever as a kind of quantum potential before ‘collapsing’ into the hot dense state we call the Big Bang."

No god reqired.

Exactly - watch a tv channel that is nothing but static - you are looking at remnants from the Big Bang

Quote: aceofspades

Quote: Evenbob

If that were true, maybe. But
it's not true, it's a story you
were told and you believed
it.



Existing-in-one-form-or-another.
The only law it breaks is the fake
laws your religion makes up. And
the theory of the universe existing
forever certainly isn't my idea, it's
a credible one put out there by many
quantum physicists.

"The study isn’t suggesting there was no Big Bang. It’s suggesting that the Big Bang did not start with a singularity – a point in space-time when matter is infinitely dense, as at the center of a black hole. By eliminating the singularity, the model predicts that the universe had no beginning. It existed forever as a kind of quantum potential before ‘collapsing’ into the hot dense state we call the Big Bang."

No god reqired.

Exactly - watch a tv channel that is nothing but static - you are looking at remnants from the Big Bang

I don't have to, I have Netlfix.

Quote: Dalex64

"The study isn’t suggesting there was no Big Bang. It’s suggesting that the Big Bang did not start with a singularity – a point in space-time when matter is infinitely dense, as at the center of a black hole. By eliminating the singularity, the model predicts that the universe had no beginning. It existed forever as a kind of quantum potential before ‘collapsing’ into the hot dense state we call the Big Bang."

That is the kind of answer that makes a lot more logical and scientific sense to me than a god. It even allows for multiple expansions and crunches, and multiple bangs separated in a much larger void, that may or may not run into each other.

I like that kind of answer too. However, don't make the mistake thinking that you still don't need a first cause or a non-contingent supernatural creator of all things. The matter that expands and/or collapses into the state we have come to call the Big Bang still cannot come from nothing. This matter did not pop into being from nothing and like all things that come to be and do not have the reason for their existence in themselves they have a cause. You still need God or if it makes you feel better a supernatural first cause or unmoved mover.