Hey FrGamble!

Quote: Evenbob

Prove it's existence with science, then.
It's an idea, a blurry concept. Because
what's evil for one person can often
he a boon for someone else. It's all
a matter of where you're standing
at the time. A person with a terminal
disease will spend enough on
treatments to make his doctors Mercedes
payment every month. The evil
disease was transformed magically to
a good thing for the doctor and his bank.

Good and evil are one side of the same
coin. You can't have one without an equal
amount of the other because they are
just vague concepts.

I just can't ignore things like this.
So because a funeral home makes money when a young child is shot it is not an evil? Bob, that is sick. It is a tragedy that young girl was shot no matter who you are or where you are standing!
Good and evil are not together or sides of a coin. Evil is the privation or perverting of good.

Quote: FrGamble

Most of the disciples except for John didn't see Jesus die, they ran away if you remember.

And that John did not
write anything in the NT.
So there is no writer in the
NT who who was a witness
to anything.

Quote:

You also think that billions of people throughout thousands of years are just lying about their relationship with Jesus

Absolutely not. Just like any of
the millions who believed the
Greek and Roman gods were
real were lying. They really
believed what they were
taught was true. Just like a
4 year old believes Santa
and the Easter Bunny are
real and are devastated when
they find out the truth. Humans
are extremely gullible and
impressionable.

Like my ex priest friend. He believed
so much he became a priest.
Now he's an atheist. Was he lying
then or is he lying now. Neither
is true.

Bob where are those that believe in the Roman or Greek gods now? Or right nobody does, how about adults that believe in the Easter Bunny, no one? Of course not. Not everyone is as gullible as you think or as you behave sometimes. Truth will out, every time.

By the way do you believe that there was a historical figure named Julius Ceaser? There is only a fraction of ancient writings about him none written earlier than 300 years after his death. Jesus Christ is by far, it is not even close, the most attested historical figure there is.

Quote: FrGamble

Bob where are those that believe in the Roman or Greek gods now? .

They are where all the gods
before them are, gone into
obscure history. They're
where Jesus will be some day.
You're right in the middle of
it and don't see it.

Look at N EU. Once a Xtian
stronghold, it'a almost all
secular now. In S America
in 2000 86% said they were
religious, now only 68%
say that. This is going on
all over the world.

Your own church is in a
priest/nun crisis. Churches
are closing because they
can't find a priest to run
them. Get this: 50 years
ago the average age of a
priest was 35. Today it's
70. The average for a nun
was 36, today it's 80. The
nuns especially are in danger
of disappearing. There are
so many over 90 that in just
a few years their ranks will
be devasted.

Schools and nunnerys and
seminaries are closing all
over the world because of
a lack of students and
people to teach them. Your
religion is dying right in
front of you and you don't see
it.

Quote:

where are those that believe in the Roman or Greek gods now?

Campbell's best book was probably
The Power of Myth. It was made
into a 6 part series on PBS. Look
at the main word in the title, power.
Myth's have huge impacts on the
world, as did the myth of Jesus.
But they come and go, they don't
last forever as your Jesus religion
is obviously showing signs of.
You can't even find enough nuns
and priests, that's how bad it's
gotten. There are 1/3 as many
priests as there were 50 years
ago, and half of those are over
70. The handwriting is on the
wall for all to see.

When you have been around for over 2000 years and have a divine mandate from God Himself you take these difficult times a little less pessimistic than you. Remember how the Church began, it has gone through many other difficult times. In fact the Church is in many ways a reflection of the health of society.

Another piece of evidence for the truth of Christianity is right in front of you. If myths come and go then can you name any other myth that has been around for over 2000 years and the story continues to inspire and flourish around the whole world? If myths come and go then Christianity surely is not a myth but something else that defies explination.

Quote: FrGamble

When you have been around for over 2000 years and have a divine mandate .

'Divine mandate', you're hilarious. You
do realize the people who believed
in the Greek and Roman gods thought
they were just as real and you think
your Jesus is. They gave human and
animal sacrifices to them. They had
personal relationships with them, just
like you do with Jesus.

Of course they were silly superstitious
people who were group-believing a
bunch of myths that must be true because
everybody around them believed them to
be true. Sound familiar?

That's your single best selling point for
your religion, because you've said it
so often over the years. How can so
many believers over so many years
be wrong. They can easily be wrong.
Group-think is a hugely powerful force,
as has been demonstrated in the past.
We tend to believe what we've been
told over and over, especially if our
peers believe the same. Even it it's
contradicted by reality, we still will
believe.

The only thing dying are conversations such as this.

I did find a new, young, growing and alive forum to participate in. Hundreds of members with one common goal. What a wondrous journey. Wow.

Quote: Evenbob

'Divine mandate', you're hilarious. You
do realize the people who believed
in the Greek and Roman gods thought
they were just as real and you think
your Jesus is. They gave human and
animal sacrifices to them. They had
personal relationships with them, just
like you do with Jesus.
.

Still no response to this? Have
I made a point you can't rebut?
Your Jesus is just one more deity
in long string of them.

Quote: Evenbob

Still no response to this? Have
I made a point you can't rebut?
Your Jesus is just one more deity
in long string of them.

Bob I think the proof is in the pudding. Where are those who believe in the Greek and Roman gods today? What you cannot explain and what it looks like you don't like to think about is the astounding and continued growth and impact Christianity has had on the world. You like to just chalk it up to people being gullible or it is urban myth that grew. However you know deep down that these thoughts don't come close to explaining the reality. You know that there is no other example of these things happening throughout history. You know that calling billions of people simpletons, including some of the smartest men and women who have ever lived, doesn't make sense and makes you look silly.

Quote: FrGamble

You know that calling billions of people

That is really your only argument,
isn't it. You come back to it again
and again and again. All these
people believe, how can it not be
true.
This argument is ridiculous. You
ask where are all the believers in
the Greek gods now. On the heap of
history, which is where your Jesus
will be some day. Millions believed
in the Greek gods for 2000+ years,
so using your logic they must have
existed. Your religion in in the throes
of failing right now, you're just too
involved to see it. Catholicism
has way too much archaic superstitious
nonsense mumbo jumbo attached to
it in an age where all that is dying.