Hey FrGamble!

Quote: FrGamble

Of course you can't! That is why I'm not saying that. You are thinking God is a "something" or a contingent being. God is the neccessary entity/force/being that is the source and sustainer of all existence. What you don't seem to be getting is that it is illogical not to have some first cause and non-contigent spiritual reality. Without God nothing can exist, you will keep running into the absurdity of an actual infinite regress. I kind of chuckle that so many seem to not get the logic of that. Please, if you have another logical explination for the existence of the universe I would love to hear it.

First of all.... you need spellcheck!

Let's say all you say above is correct. How do you get from the 'there is a God' to.... It's Zeus.... or Jesus..... or Muhammed..... or Hashem...... or Buddha.... or Flying Spaghetti Monster....
Quite pompous of you to say all the 'non-Jesus' ones are wrong... don't you think?

Quote: SOOPOO

Quite pompous of you to say all the 'non-Jesus' ones are wrong... don't you think?

Every Xtian is an atheist too. They
reject all the other gods except
their own. A total atheist just
rejects all of them, we aren't that
much different.

Quote: aceofspades

Padre - you still cannot logically explain how you can say

If X then Y

BUT,

If nothing then God

Not quite sure I follow you.

Also Bob this is not giving up or throwing up our hands that is what atheists seem to do. Nobody has given any other explanation. What I am saying is we take what science teachings and use our reason and logic to deduce the only possible explanation. How do you think science can ever explain how the material universe came to be? What is there to observe before things came into existence? I'm afraid you are going to have to put on your thinking cap and turn to logic and philosophy if you are going to answer this one. Thank God we have a brain and the intellect to do just that.

Quote: FrGamble

What I am saying is we take what science teachings and use our reason and logic

I'm afraid 'your' reason and logic
differs from the rest of the world's.
That's the major fault here, someone
has taught you a totally wrong
explanation of how reason and
logic really works. I'm sure you'll
never see that, your world would
fall apart if you did. But concluding
a god is behind everything is faulty
reasoning at it's very worst.

Quote: SOOPOO

First of all.... you need spellcheck!

That is true, I'm usually posting on the run on my phone.

Quote:

Let's say all you say above is correct. How do you get from the 'there is a God' to.... It's Zeus.... or Jesus..... or Muhammed..... or Hashem...... or Buddha.... or Flying Spaghetti Monster....
Quite pompous of you to say all the 'non-Jesus' ones are wrong... don't you think?

That is a completely different question and approached in a different way. I think first and foremost though we have to agree that there is a neccessary being that is the cause of everything that exists. That is the starting point to the next question of what or who is this "God". Even if you arrive at the idea that what we commonly refer to as God is unknowable we at least are free from the nonsense of atheism. I hold agnosticism in much higher regard as it at least can be supported by logic and arguments.

Quote: FrGamble

I think first and foremost though we have to agree that there is a neccessary being that is the cause of everything that exists. .

Atheism in the US doubled between
2009 and 2019. Overall atheists in
the US and EU describe their lives
as interesting and fulfilling.

"Atheists were far more likely than Christians to describe hobbies as meaningful or satisfying.. Atheists are more intelligent than religious believers, says a 2013 meta-analysis of sixty-three studies of the relationship of religious belief to intelligence. The authors found a 'significant negative association between intelligence and religiosity'.

Why is this no surprise. You only
need to invent a god in your life
if you think you need one. If you
don't need one, what's the point.
It's a huge waste of time and
energy.

Quote: FrGamble

Of course you can't! That is why I'm not saying that. You are thinking God is a "something" or a contingent being. God is the neccessary entity/force/being that is the source and sustainer of all existence. What you don't seem to be getting is that it is illogical not to have some first cause and non-contigent spiritual reality. Without God nothing can exist, you will keep running into the absurdity of an actual infinite regress. I kind of chuckle that so many seem to not get the logic of that. Please, if you have another logical explination for the existence of the universe I would love to hear it.

So god is a semantic substitution for reality? It’s just a difference in wording? Because that’s what you are saying. God is existence.

I’m not going to bother engaging beyond that. I just thought I’d pop in and pop out.

Quote: Mosca

So god is a semantic substitution for reality? It’s just a difference in wording? Because that’s what you are saying. God is existence.

I’m not going to bother engaging beyond that. I just thought I’d pop in and pop out.

Yes, at the level we are talking here God is another word for the reason and cause of all existence. An all-powerful force/entity/reality that is the non-contingent spiritual and supernatural first cause of all things. Everyone I believe can get to this point. The rest of human existence is a story of discovering who and what this "God" is. It is about coming to understand the mystery of God. Is God an intelligent being? Is God an impersonal force? Does God desire to be in a relationship with us, to love us? Does this God desire us to live in a certain way? Is there life after death with God? Reason, Science, and Logic can only take us so far. It can take us to the truth that some "God" necessarily exists. After that the questions become a little harder and more complicated.

Quote: FrGamble

Everyone I believe can get to this point.

And that's why atheism had doubled
in the US and exploded in Europe.
Nobody needs to substitute myth
for reality anymore, it's a useless
exercise. It also stunts your intellectual
growth and makes you dependent on
a church. Which is the whole point of it.

Bob nobody is talking about myths substituting for reality. Stay on target and maybe read some of the above good discussion.

By the way you can probably count on one hand the people who without any doubt are certain that there is no possibility of God existing, which correct me if I am wrong but I think you said you believe.