Where is FrG?

This is not at all what you are getting at. You want to say because I don't believe in the Muslim understanding of God that i am like an atheist. Why not just use something more like one of the Hindu gods, which I do not believe to be God at all, or Thor or Zeus?

The problem you will keep running into with this hamfisted attempt to equate me to an atheist is twofold. First, I fundamentally agree with all of these believers in that there is a God. This is of course obvious to 99% of the population. The fact that I believe them to be wrong about their concept of God is not because I don't believe there is such a thing - that is the atheist position. Rather it is because I have evidence and reason to support a different view of God. You deny not only their gods but you deny the existence of God and you have no reason or evidence to support such a claim. You could say that you don't accept any evidence for the existence of God but then you can't logically say with the certainty of an atheist that there is no God. Your position is impossible to hold. Maybe that is why most of the smart people you claim are atheists would really never go to the extremes you do in claiming mathematical certainty that there is no God. No amount of sophistry or tricks will rescue you from holding an untenable position. Just reject your atheism and move on.

Quote: FrGamble

understanding of God that i am like an atheist..

I was mistaken to call it that. What
I want to know is if this is the position
of your Church, like this Catholic site
says:

"When believing monotheists – whether Christian, Muslim
or Jewish – pray to God in whatever language they use, the
prayers all terminate at the same point: the one true God."

Father Michael Kerper pastor of St. Patrick Parish in
Nashua, N.H.

"So do Muslims worship “the true and living God?” According to Fr William Burridge in his chapter “Our Muslim Neighbours (1987) in the CTS Heritage Series entitled Islam, Britain and the Gospel, they do. They have faith in the same God, the one God who created the world and brings his creatures to their perfection.”

The Catholic Herald

I think as you can tell there are different opinions. They do believe in the Old and New Testaments, but with some changes. However, I would say no. Christianity believes in a very different concept of God than Muslims do. When we pray together we share certain sentiments and understandings of God, such as the all-powerful Creator. However, they do not believe in the Triune nature of God or that Jesus Christ is God incarnate.

Quote: FrGamble

However, I would say no.

So the same god does not hear both
your prayers as the other priest I
posted in the link says? The other
priest is wrong? What god hears the
Muslims prayer, if it's not your god.

God hears all the prayers of a sincere heart. Try it sometime.

Quote: FrGamble

God hears all the prayers.

So we've established the god of
Muslims and your god are the
same. Riddle me this, then.

Why isn't the Muslim who spends
all day in prayer and says he's been
told by the one god to do something
horrific on a public bus, why isn't
his testimony every bit as valid as the testimony
you're always telling me has to be
listened to, namely your own.

Of course if there was a god, the
Muslims testimony would be of
equal value to your own. And it
would mean your god plays terrible
tricks on his believers.

But luckily for the world, there
is no god, so it's just humans
tricking each other with self
delusions. Thank god. (ironic
pun intended)

We have not established that at all. But that is not the main point of your post.

The testimony of a Muslim who blows up a bus because God told them to has be critically looked at, like all testimony. A court doesn't just accept someone's testimony without a cross examination. So on the cross examination you show that this person's axtions don't fit with the billions more who don't blow up buses. You then look at the Koran itself which forbids such actions. You then discover that the person really doesn't have a prayer life, but rather spends all his time plotting chaos and terror and hasn't been to a mosque in years. It turns out to be pretty weak testimony.

Quote: FrGamble

It turns out to be pretty weak testimony.

So when you hear someones testimony
about god, you have to weigh it with
reason and critical judgement. He could
be self deluded and making it up without
even knowing it. Got it.

Using that criteria to judge your testimony,
being that there is no evidence for a god,
and our Muslim friend has demonstrated
how easy it is to delude yourself into going
to extremes in convincing yourself god really
is talking to you, I would have to dismiss your
testimony out of hand.

There is no way of knowing you aren't just
as deluded as the Muslim. All we have is your
belief, and his belief, and they neatly cancel
each other out. Surely you understand that.

Quote: Evenbob

So when you hear someones testimony
about god, you have to weigh it with
reason and critical judgement. He could
be self deluded and making it up without
even knowing it. Got it.

Exactly, that is why you have to do what you said; weigh it with reason and critical judgment. That is very important.

Quote:

Using that criteria to judge your testimony,
being that there is no evidence for a god,
and our Muslim friend has demonstrated
how easy it is to delude yourself into going
to extremes in convincing yourself god really
is talking to you, I would have to dismiss your
testimony out of hand.

Careful here. You are not using reason or critical judgment. Our terrorist Muslim friend can be shown to be wrong even if you don't believe in God. What do Muslim authorities say about God, what does the Koran say, what do the vast majority of Muslims think about blowing up a bus? You can easily show that this testimony doesn't make sense or align with what we already know to be true.

Quote:

There is no way of knowing you aren't just
as deluded as the Muslim. All we have is your
belief, and his belief, and they neatly cancel
each other out. Surely you understand that.

You don't understand. If two people are testifying to two different things do you just say they cancel each other out and both are deluded? What would you do in a court of law? You would examine the testimony using reason and critical judgment. You would look at other facts and see if they corroborate the testimony or show it to be wrong.

Quote: FrGamble

Our terrorist Muslim friend can be shown to be wrong

"The Quran contains at least 109 verses that speak of war with nonbelievers, usually on the basis of their status as non-Muslims. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter."

Quote:

If two people are testifying to two different things do you just say they cancel each other out and both are deluded? .

In this case you have no choice. Neither
can prove there is a god or that they
talked to him. What the god told them
follows their religious teachings, and
they both listen to the same god,
supposedly. There is no choice but
to dismiss them as self deluded, they
got contradictory orders from the
same god. The world would be an
insane place run by a god like that,
so obviously both testifiers have to
be dismissed as misguided and
delusional.