Original Sin?

Quote: Evenbob

Because those people you mention are
not forbidden to have sex or be in
relationships! It would be super spooky
to go to such a person for that kind of
advice. It's not that they aren't having
sex, they are FORBIDDEN from having
it. Big difference.

I still don't see what the difference is. It is also not as if priests are forbidden or that celibacy is forced upon them, it is a free choice made after careful discernment for over 5 years. If someone choses not to have sex or someone doesn't have sex because they haven't found the right person, what is the big difference?

Quote: FrGamble

Dalex you write this as if you think the Church had stock in Phillip Morris or something. The Church is very much against smoking cigarettes on a daily basis or becoming addicted to tobacco in any way. You want to equate the Church saying smoking an occasional cigar or pipe is okay as the same as encouraging smoking on a daily basis. You are reaching way too far. By the way I'm sure some other people in the Church would disagree with me and say that the pro-life message means zero tolerance for tobacco. I can see their point. Unfortunately I cannot see yours.

Where is it documented that the church is against regular smoking?

I was only able to find this:

Quote: The Catechism of the Catholic Church

The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid every kind of excess: the abuse of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine.

The interpretation on several "Catholic answers" sites is that regular smoking is not "excessive"

But my main point is that I don't believe that a woman's health is what the church is really concerned about when they are banning all contraception including the pill except for NFP.

I also think women are smart enough and can and do weigh the risks and benefits of whatever form of contraception that they choose to use.

I think the church is really out of touch on that issue.

Based on the number of Catholics who say they have used contraception, I think "the flock" agrees with me.

Quote: FrGamble

It is also not as if priests are forbidden

But they are. If you take the vow, the Church
forbids you to have sex. There was a recent
story of a priest who had a secret affair for
years and his superiors knew about it and
did nothing. As soon as he made it public
they said he had broken his sacred vows
and he was dismissed from the priesthood.

Priests who take the vow are forbidden,
at least publicly. In private, well, we know
how big that rug is and the size of the
giant broom. Hypocrisy rules.

Quote: Evenbob

But they are. If you take the vow, the Church
forbids you to have sex.

The priest willingly takes the vow and after years and years of discernment is invited by the Church to embrace celibacy for the Kingdom of God. Maybe this is semantics but you write as if the mean old Church imposes celibacy on men who don't want it and don't see its value practically and spiritually.

Quote: Dalex64

But my main point is that I don't believe that a woman's health is what the church is really concerned about when they are banning all contraception including the pill except for NFP.

You couldn't be more wrong. The Church is only concerned about the woman's spiritual, emotional, and physical health.

Quote:

I also think women are smart enough and can and do weigh the risks and benefits of whatever form of contraception that they choose to use.

I do too, but there needs to be a voice of one crying out in the desert against all the propaganda and hidden information out there saying to woman there is a natural healthy way to regulate and plan pregnancies that is good for you and your relationships and respects the healthy working of your body.

Quote:

I think the church is really out of touch on that issue.

It is the world that is really out of touch on this issue, but people are coming around once they finally get the facts.

Quote:

Based on the number of Catholics who say they have used contraception, I think "the flock" agrees with me.

Ah, the old numbers proves I'm right fallacy.

Quote: FrGamble

You couldn't be more wrong.

Of course he could be more wrong. He could take up Christianity.

We've been through this before many times.

Quote:

The Church is only concerned about the woman's spiritual, emotional, and physical health.

It would help to post a link to the article on The Onion as well as the headline.

IF the church were thus concerned, they'd realize there is no one right way to manage fertility and sexuality, and would know therefore many options need to remain open. They'd also not justify everything with a book that's old, outdated and filled with misinformation.

Quote:

Ah, the old numbers proves I'm right fallacy.

Pot.Kettle.and so on.

Actually he's telling you even the people who allegedly accept your faith, do not agree with the church's official position on many issues. If you still had any power left, you'd be jailing, torturing, exiling and executing such people. As it is, well, things are much better now.

Quote: FrGamble

I still don't see what the difference is. It is also not as if priests are forbidden or that celibacy is forced upon them, it is a free choice made after careful discernment for over 5 years.

We know. You only believe in forcing others into abstinence and celibacy.

Quote: FrGamble

If you are trying to point out that its disastrous health effects are the main reason the Church opposes the pill then you are correct.

Disastrous health effects of the pill: Lower ovarian cancer death rates.

http://www.esmo.org/Oncology-News/Deaths-from-Ovarian-Cancer-Decline-Worldwide-Due-to-Oral-Contraceptive-Use?hit=ehp

Quote: FrGamble

The priest willingly takes the vow

Yes, but if they break the vow and get
caught they are tossed out. That's
obviously because sex is forbidden
behavior once the vow is taken. You
just refuse to use the word so you can
pretend it isn't true.

I'm only trying to point out that your choice of words is skewed. Forbidden is usually used to say that there is something that you want to do that is off limits because someone else says so. This would not be the case for priestly celibacy.