Original Sin?

Quote: Dalex64

FrGamble, does the 3rd commandment apply to Catholics?

I hope not. The penalty for not keeping the sabbath is death. Seems kinda harsh.

Quote: pew

O.K. I didn't think he was asking about what Catholics think about original sin. Carry on.

Original Sin is the same for all Christians I think. If not I would be curious to know the distinctions or different thoughts on the matter and that fits in the theme of this thread.

Quote: Dalex64

FrGamble, does the 3rd commandment apply to Catholics?

First of all I should address the role of the 10 commandments in the Catholic religion. They are still very much valid, important, and very significant. They apply to all Catholics as a gift and a beautiful and true expression of natural law.

Jesus Himself speaks of this in the 19th Chapter of Matthew.

Quote: Mt. 19:16-19

Now someone approached Jesus and said, "Teacher, what good must I do to gain eternal life?" He answered him, "Why do you ask me about the good? There is only One who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments. He asked Jesus, "Which ones?" And Jesus replied, "You shall not kill; you shall not commit adultery; you shall not steal; you shall not bear false witness; honor your father and your mother; and you shall love your neighbor as yourself."

It is clear that Jesus sees the commandments as still valid and important, He even summaries all of them into two great commandments for us to follow.

Now in regards to the 3rd commandment. It does apply to Catholics and usually is considered the Sunday Obligation. Sunday, the day after the Sabbath, (or after sundown on Saturday) is to be kept as the Lord's day - the day of the Resurrection. This is a grave obligation, which means deliberately not going to Church to receive the Eucharist and worship with the community is a serious sin. it is also not only a day for the Lord but should be as best as we are able a day for leisure, recreation, reconnection, and reconciliation. While this is not always possible today it should be a day that stands out as different than the rest.

Quote: FrGamble

First of all I should address the role of the 10 commandments in the Catholic religion. They are still very much valid, important, and very significant. They apply to all Catholics as a gift and a beautiful and true expression of natural law.

Jesus Himself speaks of this in the 19th Chapter of Matthew.

Quote: Mt. 19:16-19

Now someone approached Jesus and said, "Teacher, what good must I do to gain eternal life?" He answered him, "Why do you ask me about the good? There is only One who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments. He asked Jesus, "Which ones?" And Jesus replied, "You shall not kill; you shall not commit adultery; you shall not steal; you shall not bear false witness; honor your father and your mother; and you shall love your neighbor as yourself."

It is clear that Jesus sees the commandments as still valid and important, He even summaries all of them into two great commandments for us to follow.

Now in regards to the 3rd commandment. It does apply to Catholics and usually is considered the Sunday Obligation. Sunday, the day after the Sabbath, (or after sundown on Saturday) is to be kept as the Lord's day - the day of the Resurrection. This is a grave obligation, which means deliberately not going to Church to receive the Eucharist and worship with the community is a serious sin. it is also not only a day for the Lord but should be as best as we are able a day for leisure, recreation, reconnection, and reconciliation. While this is not always possible today it should be a day that stands out as different than the rest.

Quote:

2187 Sanctifying Sundays and holy days requires a common effort. Every Christian should avoid making unnecessary demands on others that would hinder them from observing the Lord's Day. Traditional activities (sport, restaurants, etc.), and social necessities (public services, etc.), require some people to work on Sundays, but everyone should still take care to set aside sufficient time for leisure. With temperance and charity the faithful will see to it that they avoid the excesses and violence sometimes associated with popular leisure activities. In spite of economic constraints, public authorities should ensure citizens a time intended for rest and divine worship. Employers have a similar obligation toward their employees.

That talks about how Catholics should avoid making others work on Sunday, but what about working themselves?

What kind of a sin is it for a Catholic to work on Sunday, in a field outside of 'traditional activities' or 'social necessity'?

What part of 'as best as we are possible today' makes something less sinful?

Quote: Dalex64

That talks about how Catholics should avoid making others work on Sunday, but what about working themselves?

What kind of a sin is it for a Catholic to work on Sunday, in a field outside of 'traditional activities' or 'social necessity'?

What part of 'as best as we are possible today' makes something less sinful?

You can never be forced to sin, it has to be a free decision you yourself make without undue pressure or force. Just to remind Evenbob, you also cannot ever be forced to convert either. Therefore there are many Catholics who work on Sunday and that in itself is not sinful.

Quote: FrGamble

You can never be forced to sin, it has to be a free decision you yourself make without undue pressure or force. Just to remind Evenbob, you also cannot ever be forced to convert either. Therefore there are many Catholics who work on Sunday and that in itself is not sinful.

So are you saying that the Catholics that work on Sunday are forced to work, and that is why it isn't sinful? They are not freely choosing to work on Sunday?

You have reminded us before that no one can really be forced to do anything. There might be horrible consequences for refusing to do certain actions, but that isn't a sin, is it?

Please don't make me find the bibles stories about this. The basic idea of these stories was person X refused to sin and suffered horrible personal consequences, or his family did. but he didn't sin.

Quote: FrGamble

[..]you also cannot ever be forced to convert either.

That's the kind of thing that would be funny if only it were funny, rather than a history littered with corpses, secret lives and torture.

My memory may be faulty on this, but I think a lot more businesses were closed on Sunday years ago. It wasn't just blue laws and alcohol sales.

Guess some sins are just too inconvenient.

Quote: Nareed

Quote: FrGamble

[..]you also cannot ever be forced to convert either.

That's the kind of thing that would be funny if only it were funny, rather than a history littered with corpses, secret lives and torture.

Not funny at all, neither is a history full of myths and prejudiced lies.

Quote: Dalex64

So are you saying that the Catholics that work on Sunday are forced to work, and that is why it isn't sinful? They are not freely choosing to work on Sunday?

You have reminded us before that no one can really be forced to do anything. There might be horrible consequences for refusing to do certain actions, but that isn't a sin, is it?

Please don't make me find the bibles stories about this. The basic idea of these stories was person X refused to sin and suffered horrible personal consequences, or his family did. but he didn't sin.

There is a huge chasm between not sinning and heroic virtue. People can surely keep perfectly holy the Lord's Day and suffer the consequences if they would like to do so, but you can't force that upon them either. People can also chose to in their own way in an imperfect world to do their best to keep Holy the Lord's Day. Do you have a problem with that? Do you think that there should be no allowances for the reality of the world we live in? We have the Bible's heroes and countless saints to inspire heroic action, but not everyone is called to such things. There is the heroic activity of sacrificing what we wish we could do to provide for our families and to serve and help others.