Original Sin?

Confession is intended, and always has been since Christ Himself spoke of it, to forgive sins. The only position it puts people in is one of joy and freedom. It reminds people of how precious, good, and loved they are by God. This has truly always been my experience on both sides of the screen. I'm sorry Bob feels the way he does but he is historically and practically wrong.

Did Christ suggest a middleman?

Quote: petroglyph

Did Christ suggest a middleman?

Prior to the invention of the enclosed confessional booth, the priest sat on a chair with the penitent at his feet, making it easy for the confessor to touch the penitent. By 1576, a written report lamented the “great abomination” of priests attempting to satiate their sexual appetites during confession.
Enter the confessional booth, a.k.a. the dark box, a piece of furniture designed by Cardinal Charles Borromeo, with a grille and curtain to separate the priest from the penitent. “The box was meant to bring an end to the scandal of sexual solicitation,” writes Cornwell, but tragically it only increased the incidences. “The Borromeo box, for all its physical barriers, still allowed for whispered pillow talk in the dark: the penitent’s voice and breath up close to the confessor’s ear. Many married women, suffering from domestic and marital frustrations, became addicted to the atmosphere of crepuscular intimacy.”


Sexual predators were not only tolerated but protected. The confessional spiritually oppressed and traumatised countless children, but it also left very many of them in the hands, literally, of paedophile priests: “abusive relationships between cleric and child have almost invariably begun as a continuation of the sacrament of confession”. The resultant damage to tens of thousands of lives is incalculable; “the nature of priestly abuse of the young in the 20th century comprises not only forms of sexual molestation, but the wider phenomenon of psychological oppression. The two forms of confessional terrorism are inextricably related …”

Just say no to confession, unless
you're paying a trained shrink.
It's not worth the risk, spilling
your guts to a poorly trained
amateur, you never know what kind
of person is hearing you confess
your most intimate secrets.

Quote: petroglyph

Did Christ suggest a middleman?

Yes, He specifically told the Apostles, "Whatever sins you forgive are forgiven." John 20:21-23

Quote: Evenbob

What really killed confession was
prior to 1900, a boy had to be
12 or 13 to give confession. The
Church lowered it to 7, l

Sexual solicitation increased--inasmuch as cases were reported to the police--after Pope Pius X issued the decree in 1910 that children would now have their first communion--and required first confession--at the age of seven instead of at twelve. The damage this papal decree inflicted on Catholic children is still felt a century later. Children were brought up under a black cloud of sin and guilt. The innocence of childhood was polluted by the accusations that they were all venial and mortal sinners. How could a seven-year-old argue with a priest? And if you were a good boy or girl all week, how could you find anything to confess?

"For many children, the mental torture of confession began with the difficulty of finding 'sins' to tell. Many children invented sins only to regret it, realizing that they had committed a sacrilege by telling a lie in confession." "As of 2015, of 781 priest pedophilia cases tried in the United States, the courts determined that 694 of these cases involved the confessional"

It's important people understand how much
harm the Church has done on the planet, how
many lives it stilted or destroyed. It's finally
caught up with them, the Church is dying
in the educated countries of the world.
In many European countries, confession
is almost gone. In the US only 2% regularly
go, 75% never go. Just 50 years ago,
90% attended confession regularly.

It's the sexual obsession the men who
run the Church have that did them
in, people just got fed up with having
to tell some potential pervert behind
the screen what their sexual thoughts
were. I don't know if this is still the
case, but just a few years ago
masturbation to acquire sperm for
fertility testing in cases where couples
could not have children was forbidden
because masturbation is a sin.

Catholics are fed up, they want to lead
normal healthy sex lives with no guilt
piled on them by a bunch of sexually hung
up virgin priests.

I don't know what Evenbob thinks goes on in a confessional but he is making up some weird stuff. It is important that everyone sees that literally thousands of people around the world every day are made to feel good about themselves, reminded that they are loved by God and precious in His eyes. They are forgiven and given hope. They are freed from shame and guilt. I shudder to think of the justice that will fall upon those few priests who use such a sacred and holy thing as confession to harm anyone. There is a special place in Hell. The more I think about it Confession is one of the greatest gifts the Church has and continues to give to the world every day. Confession has been a Sacrament from the beginning and private confession began long before the middle ages. It has helped countless numbers of people and is a great blessing.

Finally, I wonder what is unhealthy about a sex life that is between a man and a woman committed to each other in a covenant of love? Is it healthier to sleep around with lots of people? Is it healthier to look at other people having sex and doing other sexual acts, some including incest and violence and masturbating? What is unhealthy about having a beautiful, fun, and enjoyable sex life with your spouse? I'm curious as to what Evenbob calls healthy and why he would say Catholics want to do something different?

Quote: Evenbob

It's the sexual obsession the men who
run the Church have that did them
in, .

Can you imagine how out of control
it must have been in the 1500's that
it got back to the pope just how
rampant the sexual abuse had gotten
in confession? This is a time when a
girl or boy would have complained
and their parents would have been
too terrified to say anything.

Priests were next to god in power,
they could do no wrong. So for
that many parents, and husbands
of abused wives, to make enough
complaints that the pope had to
order a wall put between the priest
and the public, for that many
terrified Church members to have
the guts to come forward, the
abuse must have been on a scale
we can't even imagine.

These pious 'men of god', these
'virgins for life', what a joke they
were, what hypocritical monsters.
And what's still in the headlines
today, what's changed 500 years
later.

I think it amazing that Bob thinks confessionals are made to separate the priest from the penitent. He does know that confession is meant to be anonymous doesn't he? It sounds like he is getting his information from the same place that told him Stalin was a secret Jesuit priest.

Quote: Evenbob

....Many married women, suffering from domestic and marital frustrations, became addicted to the atmosphere of crepuscular intimacy.”

There's a word you don't hear often. I had a girlfriend like that once. She was surprised that I was both diurnal and nocturnal. She learned pretty fast though.

Quote: petroglyph

Quote: Evenbob

....Many married women, suffering from domestic and marital frustrations, became addicted to the atmosphere of crepuscular intimacy.”

There's a word you don't hear often. I had a girlfriend like that once. She was surprised that I was both diurnal and nocturnal. She learned pretty fast though.

cre·pus·cu·lar
/krəˈpəskyələr/Submit
adjective
of, resembling, or relating to twilight.

What happened was, when they moved
the confessions from taking place out in
the open, where a priest could fondle
and stroke his victims at will (who would
stop him), when they moved them into
the dark closed box so a physical barrier
would separate them, it got even worse.

Now that the priest couldn't touch them,
he used his skills of cunning and persuasion
to set up times to meet them later, as
is still going on today. Something else
that started in big cities hundreds of years
ago is, priests must give confessions also.
So many of them would wear civilian clothes
and seek a parish not their own where they
aren't known and not inform the confessor
of their priesthood. That's still widely
practiced today if you're a rule breaker.