Pope Francis

Quote: FrGamble

You can believe in God and see the people running the Church in the same way.

No, you cannot. They always say
they do things because god told
them to, is leading them in certain
directions. If you're a god believer,
you think god is guiding the Church,
and the men are disobeying what
god wants. That's what keeps the
Church going, that's where they
get their authority. God.

When you're an atheist, you see the
Church has no authority whatever,
it's just greedy men doing what
all greedy men do. Sex and power
and wealth. But they get away with
crimes because supposedly they
represent a god.

When you are a Christian you realize that all human beings sin, I imagine atheists understand this too. They lie, cheat, are greedy and pursue sex, power, and wealth. Just because someone says they do things because God told them too is a stupid reason to believe them or trust them. God is guiding the Church but human beings fight Him all the time through their sinful behavior. They always lose in the end, but they cause lots and lots of pain and scandal along the way. Look past some of these awful bishops and see the saints of our day found in the laity and young priests and religious who are using this moment to more radically commit themselves to chastity, prayer, and loving service of mankind. These are who God is using to guide the Church now a days.

Quote: FrGamble

These are who God is using to guide the Church now a days.

See? You're doing it too. Everything
will be OK because god is guiding
the Church. It's what keeps the chumps
coming back, they erroneously think
a god is in charge there. It's a gimmick,
it's the time tested scapegoat. Blame
god, put it in gods hands, trust god,
give god the credit. But in reality
it's just men, god has nothing to do
with it.

I don't think anyone really believes that God runs the football game or the church or anything else.

That cult of polygamists use God as an excuse to marry young girls who have been kept ignorant.

I guess priests do the same thing only no marriage are offered to teh young girls.

Quote: Evenbob

See? You're doing it too. Everything
will be OK because god is guiding
the Church. It's what keeps the chumps
coming back, they erroneously think
a god is in charge there. It's a gimmick,
it's the time tested scapegoat. Blame
god, put it in gods hands, trust god,
give god the credit. But in reality
it's just men, god has nothing to do
with it.

God has everything to do with it and He is leading and guiding the Church. You need to take a look at Church history and when we have gone through things like this before. When God is ignored and attacked by those within and outside the Church there are always saints that arise who do listen to God and who bring about conversion and root out the sin and evil. The list goes on and on but there was Sts. Peter & Paul, St. Benedict, St. Monica and Augustine as well as Ambrose, St. Teresa and John of the Cross, St. Francis and Claire, St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Catherine, St. Ignatius, plus the countless martyrs and even our modern saints. You are only looking at the leaders who are doing such evil, sinful things and you are convinced God is not around. That is a reasonable assumption on your part. However, if you look at other places in the Church and to other people you will see God at work and calling men and women to radical holiness in response to such evil. I have a spoiler alert for you, God always wins in the end and the saints will be remembered and the sinners forgotten. Love, mercy, truth, and justice win out in the end.

Quote: FrGamble

God has everything to do with it

God has nothing to do with anything,
there is no god. When you realize this,
what the Church really is becomes
crystal clear, as clear as glass. You see it
thru god colored glasses so it's all
very confusing to you. To an atheist
outsider, there is no confusion whatsoever.

Please don't insult me by saying you are
never confused, don't force me to bring
up times when you obviously were.

Oh, I am very confused and angry about sin and evil in the world and in the Church. You also seem confused. How else can you explain an institution like the Catholic Church with all its faults and failures continuing every generation to grow, reform, change, and continue its mission. It is older than every other human institution or country. God clearly has everything to do with it or men would have destroyed it thousands of years ago.

Quote: FrGamble

How else can you explain an institution like the Catholic Church.

Easily. It clawed it's way to world
prominence by crushing all the
pagan religions to dust. Then it
grew and grew because it was the
only game in town and forcifully
converted anybody who wasn't
part of their club. Then the schism
came and you've never recovered.

The Church now has a tiny fraction
of it's former power, it's a shadow
of what it once was, and it's impact
on world affairs diminishes daily.

Bob, the Church's greatest growth took place as a persecuted minority with no worldly power. It is not interested in worldly power, never has been. It's greatest problems arise through power. If the Church loses worldly power it will be a great blessing to us all. it's spiritual truth is what crushed the failing and false pagan religions. It was never the only game in town and I think you know that if you know world history and the history of religion and philosophy. You may not know that the idea that the Church forcifully converted people is myth, but it is. Even if you are so blinded by your biased view of history you do know enough I believe to realize that forced conversion or forced anything doesn't last for long. The Church which appeals to our intellect and our soul wins people to Christ through beauty, love, service, and truth.

Quote: FrGamble

Oh, I am very confused and angry about sin and evil in the world and in the Church.

The only thing changed in a thousand years, is how it is spun.