Science and God

Quote: FrGamble

Why do you believe that the universe is eternal? .

Christians are even finding a way to
live with 'the universe has been here
forever'.

"For Christians, the idea that the universe may have always existed alongside God invites us to embrace a slightly different narrative than the narrative where God created everything 'out of nothing'. In this new narrative (which isn't new at all, actually), we're invited to embrace a story where God isn't so much a creator of something out of nothing, but a God who tames the chaos of the universe to give order, purpose, and to create beauty. It's creating, but a different kind of creating."

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/formerlyfundie/science-the-universe-has-always-existed-really-bad-news-for-young-earth-creationism/

The oldest religion, Hinduism, has always
taught the universe has no beginning and
no end. Neither do we, which is another kind
of burden in and of itself.

Quote: FrGamble

Is it not seeking the lowest point of energy through entropy?

Not really. it's merely the path of least resistance. All movement and change in the universe tends that way, absent other factors. Some aspects, like electric current, always moves on the path of least resistance. That's why birds can perch on high tension wires and not be hurt. The whole thing shows the universe is not capable of exerting an effort, which is what it takes to reverse entropy locally.

But my question is: why do you think you can profitably argue with someone who voted for Corrupt Donald?

Quote: Nareed

But my question is: why do you think you can profitably argue with someone who voted for Corrupt Donald?

Interesting question.

Quote: FrGamble

Interesting question.

You mean if I'd voted for the woman
who is so crooked she's still being
investigated by the FBI, that would make
me more credible? The woman who,
in 1993, fired the entire travel office
by charging them crimes she made up
just so she could insert the cronies she
owed favors to? The woman who has
been accepting bribes for 10's of millions
so she could be manipulated after she
was elected?

Yeah, voting for Her gives you real credibility.

Voting for her makes as much sense as thinking the universe did not have a beginning.

Quote: FrGamble

Voting for her makes as much sense as thinking the universe did not have a beginning.

Not according to the new science, which,
as they point out, isn't new at all.

(Phys.org) The universe may have existed forever, according to a new model that applies quantum correction terms to complement Einstein's theory of general relativity. The model may also account for dark matter and dark energy, resolving multiple problems at once.

http://phys.org/news/2015-02-big-quantum-equation-universe.html

It makes perfect sense that the universe
has no beginning and no end. It clears up
so many questions. We are eternal beings,
and that's just how it feels most of the time.
In one form or another, we will always be
here because we've always been here.

Not the 'me' that likes prime rib and beer
and playing with my dog. The real me, the
me that's goes on after my body wears out.
Your ego isn't you, it's something you construct
to get by in daily life. We're so much more
than that.

Wow, you really have no idea what you are talking about do you.

Quote: FrGamble

Wow, you really have no idea what you are talking about do you.

But you say that to everybody who
doesn't agree with you, remember?
We're always 100% wrong and you're
100% right on every subject, as you've
told us 100 times. It's one of the many
crosses you bear, being right all time.
Of course you aren't, not even half the
time, but that's beside the point.

I'm not sure how well this link to a slideshow on facebook will work, but here it is:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.969816653089244.1073741830.968877143183195&type=3

"Flag on the Argument" - sports-themed (NFL referee) examples of illogical arguments.

Wow, that devolved sooner than later, I'm sorry about that. As soon as politics got involved I turned you off and didn't really engage in the argument, my bad. Back to the question at hand.

Quote: Evenbob

It makes perfect sense that the universe
has no beginning and no end. It clears up
so many questions. We are eternal beings,
and that's just how it feels most of the time.
In one form or another, we will always be
here because we've always been here.

How does it make sense at all that the material universe has no beginning and no end? Do you know of any material thing that has no beginning or no end? Everything you have ever seen and touched had a beginning and will have an end. What is more everything material is contingent on something else, it does not have the reason for its existence in itself, i.e. it is not a necessary being. It make absolutely no sense that the universe, a material thing, has no beginning and no end.

What questions does it clear up? It seems to just fill us with so many more questions. How does a something that is contingent not have a cause? What does an eternal universe do to the question of movement and historical time? If the universe has always been here then how do we explain movement? Since historical actions are always preceded by other actions previous to it what does happens if we trace these actions back and back and find out there is no beginning? How can anything move or how can there be such a thing as history? Is an real infinite regress possible? You should immediately unhitch this notion of a eternal universe from your atheistic thoughts if you want to be taken seriously.

If you are making scientific statements or even statements of faith based solely on your feelings then it can lead to huge problems. You and your perception of things is not the end all of truth. Just because you feel or perceive reality in one way does not make it so. Check your hubris to allow you to see reality as not subjective but objective and above what you experience.